Australian mining magnate Gina Rinehart has criticised her country’s economic performance and said Africans willing to work for $2 a day should be an inspiration.
Ms Rinehart is reported to be the world’s richest woman and her views have been dismissed by Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
Cash rules with inflation of .6% in one month? BTW, for those who say rent prices are falling, you cannot see it by the BLS data. Housing costs up another .2% this month. Finally, Obama care has not bent the price curb, we are up .4% in the medical department.
Your link says the average rent for the US increased 4.4% from the first quarter of 2011 to the first quarter of 2012.
Rents are indeed going up, on average.
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Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-16 09:22:00
He likes to ignore that little point every time he posts the same chart…
Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 09:36:43
You like to ignore the fact that rental rates are falling in the majority of cities.
Huh Rental Pimp?
Comment by Blue Skye
2012-10-16 10:31:55
I don’t know why you guys are arguing about this. House prices have paused in their avalanche or even risen slightly this year. 2012 also saw massive attrition in the HBB doomers. Quarter to quarter stuff isn’t helpful in getting the big picture. 2% is noise. The really interesting question IMO is will the next massive wave down will hit after this little breather.
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-16 12:06:11
If rental rates are falling in the “majority of cities”, how in the world is the national average up 4.4%?
Oh, because the sample size is 10.
Transunion picked 10 cities, of which 6 had year on year decreases, and you tout that as “rental rates are falling in the majority of cities”.
10 is a statistically insignificant sample size.
Presumably the 4.4% increase is on a more significant sample.
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-16 12:11:43
Blue Skye–
To answer your question about leg down…I posted a link below to a new law under consideration in NJ, that would allow expedited foreclosures in NJ of vacant and abandoned homes.
This is a huge deal, and would dramatically increase the flow of homes onto the market in NJ. If it happens, I think there will be another leg down in prices in NJ.
If it begins to successfully clear out inventory, I suspect we may see similar laws passed in other states…there are no sob stories of families losing their homes if the homes are already abandoned.
I applaud the politicians in NJ (if they pass the law). While not as good as changing to non-judicial across the board in NJ, this is a move that very likely will negatively impact the home values of their constituents, and is a courageous piece of legislation.
“10 is a statistically insignificant sample size.”
Rental Pimp…. what 15 MILLION people are paying for shelter isn’t insignificant.
You put more bull$hit out here than 10 realtors combined.
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-16 19:23:44
It’s less significant than over 100 million households.
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-16 19:25:42
For the record, that 15 million is LESS THAN 5% of the population.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:08:23
“10 is a statistically insignificant sample size.”
Isn’t every one of those ten data points representative of an underlying ’sample size’ that numbers in the thousands or millions?
I admit the idea of making a meaningful interpretation of those ten data points is problematic, but this is for reasons other than the number of underlying population members implicitly reflected in those values…
Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-16 21:00:02
CIBT-
On the very same graph, the same collector of data comes up with their national number, from 130,000 screened applications.
That national number shows an increase of 4.4%.
That’s the point. The smaller set shows 4 up, 6 down out of 10 markets. The larger set shows an average of 4.4% up.
And RAL would like to use the smaller set for his conclusion…isn’t the larger set more reasonable to use?
Among the largest 25 rental markets, rents rose the most in Houston and Seattle, where they climbed more than 10% year over year in August. Rents are no longer rising so quickly in Denver, San Francisco, Miami, Oakland and Boston, but that may not be much comfort: these hot rental markets are still seeing annual rent increases of 8% or more.
The reality is that rental rates measured in price per square foot are falling irrespective of location.
Comment by mikeinbend
2012-10-16 15:17:13
yeah….
Except where they are not..
Sincerely
Gimp Specuvestor
SF…Getting any sweet fall surf?
Oregon has had a couple memorable days to be sure.
Comment by sfhomowner
2012-10-16 15:38:22
F…Getting any sweet fall surf?
Mike,
I missed you when you were down here. Next time….
Last weekend the surf was awesome. I have tomorrow off so hoping for some swell. Can’t wait to finish unpacking, this moving has put a damper on my recreation. The house we bought is in live-in condition, and the work it needs can wait until I feel like it, but I can;t stand being surrounded by boxes.
Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 15:59:16
“Except where they are not..”
The reality is rental rates in price per square foot is sinking. Yes… in Oregon too.
Comment by mikeinbend
2012-10-16 17:10:56
LOL!
For what it’s worth; I have been collecting the same rent from my tenant for 2.5 years; I could easily raise it 10% up to $900; granted this is Prinevlle, pop. 9,000. 30 miles east. I have been paying the same rent for over a year, $950, in Bend, and the landlord has not asked for more after over a year. So pretty stable, however, When looking to rent, I remember it distictly to be a landlords market, within reason, most owners choosing management companies and prices surging mildly. at least north of $1000 for a 3/2, so it was hard to have the patience to find the right place, rented by owner, which we finally find thru word of mouth.
SF: I have found myself subbing exclusively at my kids’ school; also my wife is the lunch lady/volleyball coach; we are there all day everyday; its pretty cool when your own kids(6th and 8th gr.) are in your class.
BTW I saw some wave pics from SFOB over the weekend. WOW! I was lucky enough to catch some of it here in OR; camping at the coast; and it was also “totally tubular”; just me and a bro; our own a-frame peak; zoo circus only 1/2 mile away. Schweet!
Got to surf with an old friend last summer in Cambria(and w/my kids); never made it to S.F. to stay with sis. Thus no Linda Mar nor OB. Hopefully next time tho; thanks for the offer to show me your local….
‘He Lies!’ They Commanded (Or are the fact checkers on the web reliable to determine who is telling the truth)
Obama has run many ads saying, as well, that Romney would raise taxes on the middle class. Romney denies he would do any such thing. Obama’s argument is that “a think tank” said that his numbers can’t add up — that it’s impossible to find enough tax breaks for the rich to offset the tax-rate reductions Romney favors — and that if Romney wanted to cut those tax rates without raising the deficit, he might have to raise middle-class taxes. The think tank said Obama was distorting its report by saying that Romney would definitely raise middle-class taxes.
PolitiFact, one of the fact-checking groups, amazingly rated Obama’s claim “mostly true.” FactCheck.org said it was “not true.”
So, which lie is true, which lie is false, or which is partially true is open to discussion. You can’t always rely on your fact checker and you’ll still have to consider all of the facts in a matter “if you want to know the real truth”.
Romney wins the election in a landslide (52-47% of the popular vote). Through his leadership, America emerges once again as a dominant force in energy exploration, green energy efficiencies (which are needed to make it viable) and job growth.
He will do this through his Five Point Plan
(1) Aggressively promote domestic energy development, especially fossil fuels.
(2) Expand the market for U.S. goods overseas by negotiating new trade agreements and standing up to China on intellectual-property and currency issues.
3) Improve workforce skills by transferring job-training programs to the states and going after teachers’ unions, which, he says, stand in the way of school choice and better instruction.
4) Attack the deficit through budget cuts, not tax increases.
5) Reshape the regulatory climate to “encourage and promote small business” rather than swamp it.
So we shall see how good I am at predicting these things. What do you think is going to happen?
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 06:53:21
I claim absolutely no ability to predict election outcomes.
But I do know how to read graphs. The post-VP debate tick in the IEM WTA market prices went in Obama’s direction, though the trend between the two debates definitely favored Romney. And despite the body blow of the first debate, Obama appears to still hold comfortable leads in both the implied vote share and winner-takes-all market predictions.
But maybe with enough misleading propaganda, the sheeple can be led to believe a Romney win is “in the bag,” and can thusly led to vote for Romney. Because sheeple love to play “follow the leader.”
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Comment by Albuquerquedan
2012-10-16 07:08:46
I would not predict the outcome either with two debates and three weeks left and the numbers being close. However, Rasmussen will get it right. Today here are the numbers:
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 49% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 47%. Two percent (2%) prefer some other candidate, and another two percent (2%) are undecided. See daily tracking history.
Thus, if the election were held today Romney would win. The swing states are swing states because they tend to vote like the rest of the nation. With a two point win even before you allocate the undecided which break for the challenger, Romney would win most all of them.
Comment by alpha-sloth
2012-10-16 07:09:25
Ladbroke’s casino odds:
Obama 4 - 9 (bet $9 to win 4)
Romney 7 - 4 (bet 4 to win 7)
FiveThirtyEight, which uses a state-by-state electoral model, has a 66% chance of Obama winning, 34% chance for RMoney.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:12:38
“Rasmussen will get it right.”
Do they have a superior track record for predicting election outcomes compared to other polls?
Or are you just blowing more BS on the HBB?
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:15:40
“…while President Obama earns the vote from 47%.”
Is that the 47% of loosers that Romney dismissed?
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:17:01
I wonder why the IEM prices disagree with Rasmussen, even though Rasmussen is “right”?
I’d always heard that money talks and BS walks, but maybe it’s different this time…
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2012-10-16 07:27:41
Yes Rasumussen election cycle after election cycle has been the best predictor and other posters have given you his record. Perhaps you do not read what other people post. The 2008 cycle he was off by 1/2%.
Comment by Ross Peroxide
2012-10-16 08:06:19
Do they have a superior track record for predicting election outcomes compared to other polls?
Rasmussen, Pew and Mason Dixon have better track records than others. The divergence between IEM/intrade/casino and public polls are certainly new phenomenon this year. I will try to catch up with a friend who’s in the polling business and report what he has to say.
Comment by Steve J
2012-10-16 14:10:50
How does the president go after unions?
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:18:11
“Perhaps you do not read what other people post.”
I read more what other people who supply references post than what those who don’t supply them post.
At the end of R/R’s first term, no net decrease in the number of Lucky Duckies receiving food stamps, disability, earned income tax credits, Obama phones, et cetera. Median household wages continue to decline. Wealth inequality continues to increase.
All of the above will also happen under O’s second term.
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Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:00:16
“Obama phones”
Are these the same as iPhones?
Comment by 2banana
2012-10-16 07:04:33
Almost - you still have to pay for an iphone
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2012-10-16 09:56:03
“At the end of R/R’s first term, no net decrease in the number of Lucky Duckies receivingneeding food stamps, disability, earned income tax credits, Obama phones, et cetera. Median household wages continue to decline. Wealth inequality continues to increase.
All of the above will also happen under O’s second term.
“
Fixed it for you.
If Romney is elected, what he is able to accomplish will be limited by the balance in the Senate. If the Democrats retain control there, his impact will be limited. If the Democrats lose control, his impact will be greater.
The biggest impact will be on the Supreme Court where he will get to appoint 1 or 2 new justices. Then we will get more great decisions like Citizens United. And the unborn will be protected at the expense of the already born.
Comment by Lip
2012-10-16 12:54:57
Happy2bHeard,
You are exactly right in that respect, regarding the status of the Senate.
But I disagree that the number of people needing food stamps will not decrease.
Why? I think the program to gain Energy Independence is going to generate a lot of jobs, a bunch. Just look at North Dakota, SE NM/West TX, Pennsylvania and Ohio.
We shall see how it all shakes out. Forgive me if I hope that we can change the direction of this great country. IMO if we get the government out of the way, the wheels of the economy will start running again.
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-10-16 13:23:50
“if we get the government out of the way, the wheels of the economy will start running again.” 1995, Mohamed Farrah Aidid, President of Somalia
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:15:42
“Forgive me if I hope that we can change the direction of this great country.”
1) Romney will continue the Republican “Thirty Year’s War” against the Middle Class.
2) We’ll be involved in ANOTHER NeoCon inspired Charlie-Foxtrot/boots-on-the-ground/fight-them-there-rather-than-here , Nation building project in the Middle East.
3) The “Energy Independence” joke will be on the US people, as most of the increased oil production will be exported, and ethanol will still be crammed down our throats. Oil bidness Texans and North Dakotans will be happy, everyone else will start figuring out how much they need to put aside for environmental cleanup.
4) Public sKools in low income/taxbase areas will finish their final swirls around the toilet, when pensions are cut, and pay is reduced to the new National Standard of $12/hour. Teachers will do the cost/benefit analysis, and say “screw it”.
5) Several Republicans representatives will start going full Sharia, passing the “Make the sluts wear something Appropriate Act”, mandating that women wear “non-stimulating” apparal.
6) Illustrations of Christmas will be revised to reflect current Republican beliefs, showing the tree wise men riding to Bethlehem on Stegosaurs.
7) “Free Market” solutions to the Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid problems will be passed. Labor Camps will be built by hospitals, where many people will be forced to take up permanent residence, to pay their bills after an uninsured overnight hospital visit.
99% of the nations wealth/output will be owned by the top 5%. For the rest of us, dog food will become a dietary staple.
Republicans will be mystified that consumer spending continues to fall, unless it can be bought on credit.
Screw what Republicans say. We have 30 years of evidence of what they will actually do……screw the little people, and continue the wealth transfer to the top 5% class.
Get back with me in 2016, and we’ll see who is closer to being right.. Assuming the internet hasn’t been “privatized” by then.
Don’t be silly, fixer. The dinos died out when they missed the last boat before the Flood. They didn’t even make it to Abraham, never mind the time frame of the sequel.
Comment by Lip
2012-10-16 10:27:15
X-GS, don’t know what you’ve been smoking, but I sure would like to try some. Ditto ahansen. Polly, et tu?
FYI, The United Nations is considering a new Internet tax targeting the largest Web content providers, including Google, Facebook, Apple, and Netflix, that could cripple their ability to reach users in developing nations.
The European proposal, offered for debate at a December meeting of a U.N. agency called the International Telecommunication Union, would amend an existing telecommunications treaty by imposing heavy costs on popular Web sites and their network providers for the privilege of serving non-U.S. users, according to newly leaked documents.
Ask the Euros how their attempt to impose “carbon trading” on US flights bound for Europe is doing.
Comment by Bluestar
2012-10-16 12:04:14
I just can’t wrap my head around the US being led by a cult leader. This is not a just a run of the mill religious politician, he’s a new hybrid of some of the most extreme elements of disaster capitalism with a core belief system based on Mormonism. This would have made a great movie plot but it’s a terrifying future.
Comment by Montana
2012-10-16 12:19:26
You mean our future would be - Utah?
Comment by Carl Morris
2012-10-16 12:22:11
Could be worse. He could be intimately connected to Wall Street…
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2012-10-16 12:56:13
You may be right. After all, the Senate has been run by another leader from the same cult for some time now, and you can see where that’s got us.
Comment by Steve J
2012-10-16 14:14:43
War with Iran will generate thousands of new jobs at cemeteries around the country.
(2) Expand the market for U.S. goods overseas by negotiating new trade agreements and standing up to China on intellectual-property and currency issues.
3) Improve workforce skills by transferring job-training programs to the states and going after teachers’ unions, which, he says, stand in the way of school choice and better instruction.
2 and 3 will fail. 1, 4 and 5 may work but don’t hold your breath on 4 I’ve heard this line before
“4) Attack the deficit through budget cuts, not tax increases.”
Don’t leave out economic growth in your assessment, growth will bring increased revenues into the treasury without tax increases. The best you will ever get out of Washington will be a reduction in the rate of growth of spending, you will never get real cuts, the budget will never be less the following year. Growth plus spending discipline IS the answer.
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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-10-16 13:49:56
Don’t leave out economic growth in your assessment, growth will bring increased revenues into the treasury without tax increases.
Growth is good but growth does not give the bang-for-the-buck that it used to give treasury revenue. Why? Because nowadays, those who mostly benefit from economic growth are the super-rich and the super-rich’s taxes are at an 80 year low.
In the past, the middle-class benefited equally with the rich from growth and productivity. We no longer do.
Again, nowadays, the rich are reaping the majority of economic growth’s rewards. When the super-rich like Romney pay 13% Federal taxes, the growth that used to boost tax receipts now mostly ends up in Swiss Bank accounts. This is the major flaw in the obsolete “growth increasing tax revenue” model.
Comment by nickpapageorgio
2012-10-16 18:40:55
“Again, nowadays, the rich are reaping the majority of economic growth’s rewards.”
Yes, thanks to wall street bailouts, car company bailouts, crony socialist projects like Solyndra and A123 systems. In fact, it appears the communists have cornered the market on making the rich even richer.
Obama’s campaign donors are among some of the most wealthy people on earth, sounds like the elite plan on doing very well in the future (if Obama is re-elected), while the proletariat continue to suffer.
On a final note: Only a real live communist could attempt to make an argument against economic growth. I will even go as far as saying you are unqualified to comment on the American economy, primarily because of your opposition to our Constitutional system of government.
Liberals’ green-energy contradictions
Washington Post | October 15, 2012 | Charles Lane
Al Gore is about 50 times richer than he was when he left the vice presidency in 2001. According to an Oct. 11 report by The Post’s Carol D. Leonnig, Gore accumulated a Romneyesque $100 million partly through investing in alternative-energy firms subsidized by the Obama administration.
Two days after that story ran, Mitt Romney proclaimed at a rally in Ohio’s Appalachian coal country: “We have a lot of coal; we are going to use it. We are going to keep those jobs.” Thousands cheered.
The juxtaposition speaks volumes about the Democratic Party, and about modern liberalism generally. As the Democrats become more committed to, and defined by, a green agenda, and as they become dependent on money from high-tech venture capitalists and their lobbyists, it becomes harder to describe them as a party for the little guy — or liberalism as a philosophy of distributive justice.
But that’s not the worst contradiction in the Democrats’ doing-well-by-being-green ethos. Green energy is not cost-competitive with traditional energy and won’t be for years. So it can’t work without either taxpayer subsidies, much of which accrue to “entrepreneurs” such as Gore, or higher prices for fossil energy — the brunt of which is borne by people of modest means.
Consider California’s “net metering” subsidy for solar-panel users. As the New York Times reported in June, the program hugely benefits well-off consumers who can afford to install photovoltaic panels. They get sun power for their homes — plus an excess supply that utilities must buy. Thus utilities must also pay to keep them on the grid. Those costs get passed along to everyone else — including low-income customers.
It’s one thing to lose your job because a competing firm built a superior mouse trap; it’s quite another, justice-wise, to lose it because a competitor talked the government into taking its side.
“Perhaps you thought the Solyndra scandal amounted to a $535 million government loan that will never be repaid. No such luck. Solyndra’s investors could be rewarded for their failure, thanks to a tax benefit the Administration handed out in a bid to evade political accountability.
There are between $875 million and $975 million in net operating losses that can reduce future taxable income, which the IRS values as high as $350 million.
Tax-loss carry-forwards are routine but worthless if a company can’t turn profits to pay taxes on. So Solyndra’s owners are asking the court to liquidate the rest of the business and contribute a net $6.7 million to pay off creditors for pennies on the dollar. A holding corporation will then emerge from Chapter 11 that won’t make products or employ workers, but it will get the Solyndra tax offsets.”
A123 Systems Inc. (AONE), a maker of rechargeable lithium-ion batteries for electric cars, filed for bankruptcy after failing to make a debt payment that was due yesterday.
The company listed assets of $459.8 million and debt of $376 million as of Aug. 31 in Chapter 11 documents filed today in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware. Chapter 11 is the section of the Bankruptcy Code used by companies to reorganize.
A123 didn’t expect to be on time with an interest payment due yesterday on $143.8 million of notes expiring in 2016, or to make a payment due yesterday on $2.76 million in outstanding 6 percent notes, the Waltham, Massachusetts-based company said yesterday in a regulatory filing.
“The company may not have sufficient cash to fund operations and may need to seek the protections provided under the U.S. Bankruptcy Code,” A123 said.
A123, which received a $249.1 million federal grant in 2009 to build a U.S. factory, needed a financial lifeline after struggling with costs from a recall of batteries supplied to Fisker Automotive Inc., the plug-in hybrid luxury carmaker. A123 announced in August that it was working on a deal with Wanxiang Group Corp., China’s largest auto-parts maker, for financing in exchange for a majority ownership stake.
Going into bankruptcy is very routine if you are an Obama backed green company.
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Comment by scdave
2012-10-16 07:00:38
Minuscule compared to bankrupting the country like your previous President did…
Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-10-16 07:00:42
Let us know when it comes close to the Wall St bailout.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:03:32
Nice change of subject there, scdave!
How did we get on the subject of green energy to begin with? Oh yeah — the paid prostitutes brought it up…
Comment by Albuquerquedan
2012-10-16 07:16:19
I never voted for him and I think you ignore Carter’s and Barney’s roles in pushing banks to lend to minorities without having the credit scores or the down payments. B. Frank was blocking any reform right up to the day everything collapsed. BTW, Obama’s administration is pushing for that again.
No the housing bubble was caused by both political parties which used it to cover the real decline in income caused by both parties’ globalist policies.
Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-10-16 07:32:49
“No the housing bubble was caused by both political parties which used it to cover the real decline in income caused by both parties’ globalist policies.”
Who are you and what have you done with the real A-Dan? This the most intelligent thing I have ever seen you post. And utterly correct.
Just one caveat: they did it for Wall St., of which they are all heavily invested in.
Comment by scdave
2012-10-16 07:51:55
you ignore Carter’s and Barney’s roles in pushing banks to lend to minorities without having the credit scores ??
It starts at the top my friend…….
Flashback: In 2004 Bush Campaigned For Re-Election On The …
thinkprogress.org/politics/2008/09/19/…/bush-ownership-society/Sep 19, 2008 – During the 2004 campaign, President Bush declared his pride in making America what he called “an ownership society.” He promoted …
Comment by 2banana
2012-10-16 09:11:08
Yes it does. Keep going…
“No loan is exempt, no bank is immune. For those who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement (of the Community Reinvestment Act).” — Attorney General Janet “Burn them All” Reno
Comment by X-GSfixr
2012-10-16 09:21:29
Yeah, the Repubs just can’t let go of the CRA ACT excuse.
CRA act or not, NOBODY made those loans, until the banksters figured out they could offload them onto someone else, and walk away with cash.
What was the total value of CRA loans? Something like 4-5% of the total mortgages outstanding? Somebody must have built a giant pyramid of leveraged crap, even if EVERY ONE of the CRA loans defaulted.
The fact that the banksters were able to dodge/eliminate practically every other regulation, but couldn’t dodge the CRA, doesn’t pass the common sense test.
As has been well-documented here on this forum, CRA loans have a significantly higher repayment rate than private lender loans. But then you knew that.
Getting rid of corporate taxes will cause people to use the corporate structure to avoid individual taxes (even more than they already do) which will result in even greater concentrations of wealth in the group of people who already have it.
If you can’t address the obvious problem, don’t advocate the policy that causes it.
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Comment by cactus
2012-10-16 12:57:20
“Getting rid of corporate taxes will cause people to use the corporate structure to avoid individual taxes (even more than they already do)”
Many if not all high tech companies re-route product through Sinapore to avoid high US taxes
Have to hire engineers in Sinapore to qualify that’s part of the dealeo
Comment by polly
2012-10-16 15:46:07
If you eliminate corporate taxes (to get rid of the problem of corporate tax breaks), then no one will have to route anything through anywhere to avoid paying taxes on it. They will just have to leave the money in the company. Anyone with a C-corporation woud be able to avoid taxes on any earnings they didn’t take out of the company.
It is essentially permission to turn the income tax into a consumption tax. There wouldn’t be an income tax anymore - at least not for anyone who saves any money at all.
“Gore accumulated a Romneyesque $100 million partly through investing in alternative-energy firms subsidized by the Obama administration.”
Emphasis on partly. How much of that increase in wealth did he accumulate in the 8 years between leaving office and the start of the Obama administration? How much came from other stuff? Your statement would be true if he had gotten $5 from all of the “alternative-energy firms subsidized by the Obama administration” combined.
The point remains: Government, with its inevitable susceptibility to lobbying and favoritism, should not be picking winners and losers, whether through green subsidies or tax breaks for oil and gas.
It’s one thing to lose your job because a competing firm built a superior mouse trap; it’s quite another, justice-wise, to lose it because a competitor talked the government into taking its side.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:04:32
It’s the paid Republican political prostitution blog…
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Comment by Northeastener
2012-10-16 07:40:10
t’s the paid Republican political prostitution blog…
A third of this country votes Republican and and another third Democrat, give or take… 1 in 3. 33%. Not everyone here is a “paid republican troll”. Not saying they don’t exist, but your attempts to squash the other side of political arguments based purely on party affiliation is unproductive and transparent.
In fact, I take it as a small comfort that Romney is a serious threat to Obama in this election, post-debate, now that many liberals here no longer pretend to be “independent” voters.
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2012-10-16 10:41:09
“Not everyone here is a “paid republican troll”. Not saying they don’t exist, but your attempts to squash the other side of political arguments based purely on party affiliation is unproductive and transparent.”
Not everyone who argues for a Republican viewpoint is a troll. Those who continually present the same discredited talking points deserve to be bashed as trolls when they bring them up again.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:23:28
“Those who continually present the same discredited talking points deserve to be bashed as trolls when they bring them up again.”
It’s kind of a pain to have to keep pointing these sorts out again and again, but somebody has to do it. I’m pretty sure God would not have given me such a good bullshitometer if he didn’t want me to participate in the effort.
Bloomberg - Obama’s $5 Billion Slow to Charge Electric Car Purchases:
“President Barack Obama has put $5 billion in taxpayer money behind his goal of having 1 million electric cars on U.S. roads by 2015. The Republican presidential ticket says it’s money wasted on “losers.” (loosers?)
Whether the technology itself is a loser or consumers are merely slow to adapt to new things, car buyers so far haven’t embraced electric vehicles in numbers close to Obama’s goal. Electric vehicle sales since 2011 totaled fewer than 50,000 through September, just 5 percent of the president’s target.”
How much money was spent getting Neil Armstrong to the moon and what were the eventual dividends from that investment?
How much money was spent developing the world wide web and what were the eventual dividends from that investmenet?
Seems to me that had we left this to the private sector, we might still be wondering about spce travel and and certainly not reading this very message in real time.
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Comment by Ross Peroxide
2012-10-16 10:15:42
You just made republicans’ aregument for increased militiry spending. Let’s spend trillions in war machines, we might get one or two useful thing out of it.
Comment by 2banana
2012-10-16 10:16:45
OK - I see. We are subsidizing the wealthy to buy $50,000-$100,000 cars for their PERSONAL use for the betterment of mankind everywhere…
Sounds like the same reason we bailed out the TBTF banks and their million dollar salary CEOs…
Technology doesn’t develop itself in a vacuum, nanerz. Nor does its infrastructure. It comes about incrementally as the product is refined and accepted.
What do you suppose the per-citizen subsidy has been to GE for its war machines, hmmm?
Fast charge, long range electric/hybrid cars are going to be outselling ICE cars within 10 years.
>> They DON”T exist and will not exist in 10 years based on the progress of this technology for the last 40 years.
Honda just sold its one millionth hybrid yesterday.
>> Great! And did they do it without massive government subsidies for each car sold?
Tesla just received $10 million is expansion funding to start production of it’s 3rd model.
>> Great! Nothing like federal subsidies for a company that makes cars starting at $100,000.
Toyota has expanded it’s Prius line to 5 models.
>> Why no high fives for the obamamotors Chevy Volt????
Installation labor is now the biggest cost of solar home installation and even that problem has been solved.
>> Illegal immigrants? Solar power homes make no economic sense in 80% of the USA. And in the remaining 20% it still needs MASSIVE federal and state subsidies.
Easy to make predictions but everywhere countries are cutting back the subsidies to solar due to its high cost still twice as expensive as other power. When the subsidies and are pulled the market collapses. Only in Japan is there any market due to the nuke plants being down. Tesla is on the edge of bankruptcy. One million cars is less than 1% of the cars on the road.
Solar is still twenty years away. Fuel cell cars if you count them as electric may be feasible soon but pure electric cars will not drop in price as lithium gets more expensive. Where is all this lithium suppose to come from it is scarcer than fossil fuels. No, it is a deadend technology unless you find another way to make batteries.
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Comment by turkey lurkey
2012-10-16 07:39:52
Wrong. Better recheck you market facts.
Solar (and wind) is booming world wide, including here.
Google “world solar market trend” Click images and look at the charts.
Comment by 2banana
2012-10-16 09:13:19
So were sub-prime loans.
How did that work out?
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2012-10-16 10:53:11
“Solar is still twenty years away.”
If we burn fossil fuels faster, it will get here sooner. The more expensive fossil fuels are, the more competitive alternatives become.
Solar and other alternatives are not yet competitive. Oil will not go away overnight. But the trends support investing now, while we still can. I fully expect that fossil fuels will be necessary to build the alternative infrastructure.
Doing nothing will leave us completely unprepared for an inevitable future of very expensive fossil fuels. Every year, more of us will be left hungry in the cold and dark with only our feet to take us where we need to go.
Agreed this article captures my view, here is excerpt:
Saving Solar Energy From the Government and the Political Class
Written on October 16, 2012 by Editor - Science News
It would be better if some of the money could be directed away from subsidies to businesses. To put it bluntly, the US government would have to give up on “crony capitalism, as exemplified by Solyndra, and go back to funding scientific research.
When government steps out of its legitimate role supporting basic scientific research, and attempts to play venture capitalist, the results are usually disastrous. It is clear that, unlike venture capitalists, politicians are not accountable to either investors or the SEC. Presidents and legislators are accountable only to the voters. If we were to judge simply by America’s current national debt, wise stewardship of taxpayers’ money is obviously not a major voter concern.
Some of the best money the US government has ever spent, however, has been invested in basic scientific research. The payoff has rarely been as direct as, for example, the payoff from the Defense Department’s investment in survivable communications, which led directly to the internet. Rather, basic science pays for itself by creating an ecosystem of experienced and highly trained people, who constantly raise the nation’s general level of knowledge and skill. Entrepreneurs and investors, not politicians, can then employ that knowledge to create new products and new industries.
I think some of the push to subsidize companies with loans comes out of a desire to remain competitive with China, which does not have the same concern about picking winners and losers. If we cede the business to China, then we do not get the multiplicative effect of increased jobs in this country. Do we get the ROI from our investment in scientific research if the bulk of the jobs are created in CHina?
Would a Romney administration provide any support to our alternative energy industry? Or would they cut funding even for scientific research?
If Romney picked a green energy company, you can be sure that it would be more likely to succedd than Obama’s track record.
I would suppose that Romney will be trimming “all segments” of the government as that what it’s going to take to get us back to a balanced budget.
Once things start working out, the support would return, but I’m not certain that it can happen that fast (aka 8 years
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Comment by Bluestar
2012-10-16 15:47:46
Solyndra was put into the DOE pipeline during Bush’s 2nd. term. It was fast tracked as part of the first stimulus package. It was doomed by a collapsed silicon market. Pure silicon was around $400 a kilo back in 2006 when Solyndra was formed. Now silicon is $20 and the cost of flat panel modules has dropped by 80%. As bad as Solyndra is it pales in comparison to the A12 Navy jet program. The taxpayer ate that one too plus the contractor got paid a severance fee.
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2012-10-16 16:33:11
“If Romney picked a green energy company, you can be sure that it would be more likely to succedd than Obama’s track record.”
It is more likely that someone else in his administration or Congress would be picking the company than that Romney would do it himself.
The economy is already slowly improving. Whether it continues to do so may depend more on what happens in the rest of the world than what the next President does.
China’s slowing growth is impacting the rest of the Asian economies. The Euro’s problems and austerity policies are impacting growth in Europe. I don’t think we can expect a lot from Africa and Latin America. Brazil may continue to grow, but they are not a large enough economy to carry the world.
Will the US economy grow because of slowing growth in the rest of the world as capital looks for the best place to invest? Or will it shrink as consumers slow spending worldwide?
“Government, with its inevitable susceptibility to lobbying and favoritism, should not be picking winners and losers, and Brazil can never become energy independent.” 1977, Ima Dumphuc, CEO BrazilOilnCoal
54% DTI - Insanity. There is nothing left except Ramen noodles.
FYI (from Wikipedia) - The two main kinds of DTI
The first DTI, known as the front-end ratio, indicates the percentage of income that goes toward housing costs, which for renters is the rent amount and for homeowners is PITI (mortgage principal and interest, mortgage insurance premium [when applicable], hazard insurance premium, property taxes, and homeowners’ association dues [when applicable]).
The second DTI, known as the back-end ratio, indicates the percentage of income that goes toward paying all recurring debt payments, including those covered by the first DTI, and other debts such as credit card payments, car loan payments, student loan payments, child support payments, alimony payments, and legal judgments.
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Zillow Housing Forum and The Bearish View
Calculated Risk Blog | 10-14-2012 | Bill McBride
Hanson thinks we are just seeing a stimulus bounce and that prices will start falling again. Here are a few of Hanson’s comments (from notes and memory - Zillow will have a video of the forum available this week).
Hanson argued there is a substantial “shadow inventory” that will come on the market. He talked about the number of homes with negative equity (CoreLogic puts the number at 10.8 million, Zillow put the number at 15.1 million). Hanson also mentioned 6 million delinquent mortgages (LPS puts the number of properties delinquent or in foreclosure at 5.45 million).
And Hanson also mentioned the 6 million recent modifications (he called modified loans the “new subprime” because he thought a large number would default again). Hanson talked about the high “Back-End Debt-to-Income Ratio” even after modification. What Hanson was referring to was the HAMP programs were the borrowers have substantial debt payments in addition to their mortgage payment (student loan, car, other installment loans). In the most recent HAMP report, the back-end DTI was 53.6% after modification, and the front end DTI (principal, interest, taxes, insurance and homeowners association and/or condo fees) was 31%. With these high back-end ratios, Hanson argued many of these people would default (that is why he called it the “new subprime”).
Hanson mentioned several big numbers: 15 million with negative equity, 6 million modifications (more counting other retention programs), 6 million properties currently delinquent. No question there are significant issues for borrowers with negative equity, as an example they will have difficulty moving for a new job, and, as Hanson noted this limits the move-up market. But we can’t add these numbers together because that would mostly be double counting. Most (but not all) of the seriously delinquent borrowers have negative equity - and if they don’t, they can sell their homes and avoid foreclosure.
And most of the modifications have negative equity. And probably all of the listed (visible inventory) contingent short sales have negative equity. So when we are talking about unlisted inventory that will be forced on the market over the next 2 to 3 years, we can mostly ignore negative equity and focus on current and expected delinquencies.
As far as modifications, Hanson focused on the HAMP data (about 1.08 total permanent modifications so far, and about 23% have defaulted). And I agree that many more of these HAMP modifications will default over the next couple years. But there are another 4.6 million proprietary modification programs completed too (these are lender specific programs). Some of this data is available from Hope Now. The lenders also offered additional retention plans. (removed) These borrowers may redefault when the mortgage rates adjust, but that is several years from now - so this isn’t imminent forced inventory on the market.
The most important short term numbers are the 2.02 million properties currently in foreclosure pre-sale inventory (in the foreclosure process) and the 1.52 million properties that are 90 or more days delinquent, but not currently in foreclosure. Many of these properties will be sold as short sales (many are already listed as “short sale contingent”). A large number of these properties that are in foreclosure are located in judicial states, and that means there will not be a huge wave of foreclosures, but a steady stream in those states as the foreclosures work through the courts (and that could keep house prices from increasing).
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 06:44:19
“54% DTI - Insanity. There is nothing left except Ramen noodles.”
It’s really not that bad. You can always rent a cheaper place. Either downsize your household (of course moving your extra crap into rental storage in the process), move into a less-desirable neighborhood, or both.
If absolutely necessary, move to a less-desirable country.
Don’t confuse people with logic Oxide. You and I bought at a good time. For me, living in flyover country and wanting just a small house it made sense to get the tax credit. With that tax credit, I bought at the bottom. Since you live at the East coast where the tax credit would be a much smaller part of the price it made sense to wait.
The Economist in the late Spring found houses 19% too cheap in the U.S. based on rent prices. They have continued to increase by another .2% just this month alone. Since housing prices have also gone up, I do not know whether the difference is still 19%. However, the 19% cushion more than protects people from any down side caused by the diminishing shadow inventory.
P.S. I just refinanced and now how a mortgage with a 3 handle for a 30 year mortgage. It pays to be a contrarian. I also know with the appraisal two things. The $8,000 dollars was more than the decline in the houses value from Feb. 2012 until now. Yes, there was some decline and I expected it.
Second I bought the house for less than its present replacement value by about 11%.
I have never quite got the “its going down or its going up” analysis when buying your personal residence…Maybe its just grounded in my personal desire to stay in one place long term…You only find out if its gone up or down when you sell it…Until then, isn’t it irrelevant ?? I have been in my current place 32 years….
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Comment by AmazingRuss
2012-10-16 09:29:20
It’s a bit of whistling past the graveyard… “I did NOT make a colossal mistake! I did NOT make a colossal mistake!”
Same thing we were whistling when we were whistling in 2004 when the market couldn’t possibly keep going up but did.
Good thing you didn’t buy when you were house-hunting and making offers last year, eh? Are you still looking?
What have you done with your other two houses? Sold them off like you advise everyone else? Guess not, since you said just a week or two ago that you still own them. If you had one of your offers accepted last year then you’d have owned three houses! Seems like a lot of RE for someone who constantly talks it down and advises everybody else to sell at once or be doomed.
Why don’t you follow your own advice? Are you being deceptive?
Losing a few hundred thousands dollars on a depreciating asset is like buying a pizza? Really? REALLY?
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Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-10-16 14:57:22
Losing a few……dollars on a depreciating asset is like buying a pizza? Really? REALLY?
Yea really. Really. Really. Housing is like buying lotsa pizzas in many cases.
Example: Darryl in somewhere in AZ bought a1 49K condo which rents for more than his monthly nut. Heck 49K is some rich folk’s tab for a toga party. Darryl’s housing is a consumption item as is pizza. What does he get for his money? He gets shelter. Shelter can be (and many times is reasoned as such on the HBB) looked at as a consumption item.
Darryl is getting something for his money. He is getting shelter. He is consuming shelter instead of pizza although he now has shelter to eat his pizza.
Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 16:46:11
You left out the critical fundamental…… Even a peon can afford to overpay for a pizza that might even be inedible.
A pizza priced in multiples of yearly wages? He’ll never recover financially.
I lost money on the groceries I bought last year. A lot of money.
Gas, groceries, shelter (rent or mortgage): they are all the same to me. These are things I must pay each and every month in order to live in this society.
I guess I *might* consider getting off the grid (would have to buy in order to do that), except I don’t really want to live in the boonies.
I personally just got tired (and older) waiting for rents to collapse in San Francisco. Prices came down enough for us to pay less in PITI than we had been paying in rent, and that’s good enough for me.
Inflation, deflation, total global economic collapse, who knows? None of us here can predict with any certainty what is going to happen.
In the meanwhile, my family and I have a roof over our heads, food in the fridge, and a tank full of gas. For today, that’s enough.
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Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 14:45:21
Prices came down enough for us to pay less in PITI than we had been paying in rent,
But this isn’t true. You know it and so do we. You’re paying more per square foot than you were renting.
Why deceive yourself?
Comment by sfhomowner
2012-10-16 15:09:14
Dude,
Last month: 3 bedroom (with a roommate) for $2700 month. No rent control.
This month: 2 bedroom (no roommate!) for $1600 month (excluding taxes). Taxes will be high this year and next until I get my 12-13 tax return.
The federal income tax advantage provided by the MCC for a homebuyer who keeps the same mortgage loan and lives in the same house in San Francisco will be equal to 15% of the mortgage interest paid annually on a dollar for dollar basis. This means the total of 15% of your mortgage interest is deducted directly from your annual tax debt. The remaining 85% of your mortgage interest is taken as a deduction from your gross income in the usual manner.
Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 15:55:03
Nobody cares about your roomies.
You’re paying more per square for buying than you were renting. You know, we know it. Get over it.
Let It Be Known That No Financial Crisis Was Ever Caused by Stable Money
Forbes | 10/16/2012 | Nathan Lewis
There aren’t many blanket statements you can make about economics. Usually, “it depends.” But, there’s one thing I can say with a fairly high degree of confidence:
No economic crisis was ever caused by stable money.
Of course, many crises happened during the gold standard era, before floating currencies appeared in 1971. In the two centuries before 1971, people got into financial trouble for all kinds of reasons. Banks lent money to people that couldn’t pay it back. Businesses invested in ideas that turned out to be not so hot. Governments borrowed and spent more than they should have. Destructive domestic tax increases were imposed. Countries got into tariff wars with each other. There were even a few World Wars, Civil Wars, communist revolutions, and so forth.
None of them were caused by money that was too stable.
Since 1971, we’ve had a colossal number of crises worldwide that have been caused by unstable money. The entire world had an inflation problem during the 1970s, as the U.S. dollar was devalued from $35/oz. of gold in 1971 to around $350/oz. afterwards. In the 1980s, all of Latin America erupted into currency catastrophe, and spent the next decade in a debilitating hyperinflation. The 1990s witnessed Japan destroy itself with a currency that rose and rose, while all of the Soviet sphere collapsed into hyperinflation. Mexico blew up again in 1995. In 1997-98, another round of currency disasters swept through Asia, and also knocked out Brazil and Russia. Argentina blew up in 2001. Since then, the world has been in another round of currency depreciation, with the dollar’s value sinking from the $350/oz. level to around $1700/oz. today. This will not end happily either.
And as turkey implied, but didn’t specify, it is a logical falacy. Just because one event happens after another event doesn’t mean that the second was caused by the first.
For example, I bought a loaf od bread last night. That doesn’t mean that my purchase of a loaf of bread caused the head of Citibank to resign.
Had I rented for the 272 months I lived there, I could have gotten a place (without paying for utilities) for $2053 a month…and rent wasn’t $2053 a month back in 1989.
I’m actually LOSING for having had a house.
$691,381 (what I paid from 1989 on)
423,000 (what I’ll net after sale)
========
$268,381 = how much money I would have been ahead if I had just rented since 1989.
Why are your association fees so high? Did you get anything for it (golf, pool, snow removal, etc.)
Did you ever take out home equity loans?
$133K remodel???
You also had use of the MID and must include any tax savings into your cost model.
You also assume you would have had the landlord from heaven.
Even using your own numbers:
You would have paid $2053×272 = $558,416 in rent alone.
I never took out a home equity loan. The association dues started out at $100 a month. Over time, as the complex has aged, it has needed costly repairs. Some of the units’ roofs were quite leaky and had to be replaced. Some large trees had to be cut. The driveway needs resurfaced from time to time. Fencing has had to be replaced. We share a pool with a neighboring complex.
It wasn’t all $133,000 on the remodel. I needed a new furnace. I live in California, so I paid $14,000 for an earthquake retrofit. The remodel did turn out very well and added to the price of the home for resale.
You can’t subtract what you would net after a sale from what you have paid so far to get “how much I would have been ahead if I had just rented since 1989.” You have to compare it to the payments you would have made in rent/renters insurance/utilities (yes, most renters pay utilities)/moving costs. Could you have rented for an average of $972 a month for those 23 years? Without moving?
Also, how much is left to pay on your mortgage? You are 23 years in on a 30 year. And why haven’t you refinanced? What was your original rate? Why haven’t you made additional payments to pay it off faster. After 23 years you could easily be finished with that thing with just a little bit of extra a year.
I’m not buying what you are selling. Exeter, is that you?
I paid off my 30 year loan in 12 years, saving lots on interest. I’m assuming that whether I rent or bought I would have paid utilities, so I didn’t factor that in.
I did refinance over and over. I don’t know what my original rate was; that info is lost in time. I did make additional payments.
So your numbers are all made up? You can’t claim to have paid for 23 years and then say you paid it all off in 12.
It is easier to tell the truth. You don’t have to keep track of the lies that way.
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Comment by Neuromance
2012-10-16 08:41:34
You can’t claim to have paid for 23 years and then say you paid it all off in 12.
It is easier to tell the truth. You don’t have to keep track of the lies that way.
The poster never claimed to have paid for 23 years. The first statement of payment duration from the poster was the 12 years.
YOU made the statement that “You are 23 years in on a 30 year.”
Comment by polly
2012-10-16 10:21:45
So she bought a $227K house in 1989 and paid it off in 12 years, paying $418K in the process?
I want to see the real numbers. And it still has to be realistically compared with the comparable rents over the 23 years since the house was purchased.
So, if it’s paid off, you now have a free-and-clear home, subject to the benefits of Prop 13. Then at least $227k of your payments went to pay down principal.
So, your “$268k” worse off is at MOST $41k worse off…and if you think you can get $41k out of your $132k remodel, you are even…assuming the home is only worth today what you paid in 1989 +$41k.
1. “Linda” would have been $232K ahead only if her rent was $0.
2. Polly: interest rate would have been 9.5%. $418K over 272 months is $1536/month principal + interest. Assume a $182K mortgage (20% down). Iterate interest rates into Bankrate’s mort calculator, and 9.5% gives a $1530 P+I. Close enough. And they never refinanced ONCE over 23 years?
3. $133K is very reasonable for 22 years remodel if the house needs some fixing up. But $227K in 1989? A “cheap” $227K house in 1989 was pretty high end, and should have been pristine move-in condition.
4. If it were a high-end house in 1989, it should be worth more than $423K now. Especially with the remodel.
5. Banana is right on the HOA fees. Maybe rent wasn’t $2053 a month in 1989, but HOA fees weren’t $210 a month in 1989 either. “Linda” must be on a golf course…
$418K is what she claims it would sell for now. The alleged purchase price was $227K.
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Comment by oxide
2012-10-16 07:10:02
$418K is what she claims she spent on the mortgage P+I.
$423K is what she claims it would sell for now.
She paid more than twice the purchase price in P+I alone, and that was after making all those extra payments? The interest rate must have been closer to 11 or 12%. But when all is said and done, she still made out better than paying rent.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:21:29
You forgot the half that are paid Republican political prostitute posts…
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Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 07:31:08
The paid housing pimps really are desperate to divert attention from the fundamental point of this blog. Keep everyone talking about the duopoly and if housing does come up, the lies flow lie water.
Wow, what a skeptical crowd. I’m ME, Linda, first of all. No one else but me. I scrimped and saved and made extra payments to pay off my $227,000 home in 12 years. Plus, I hit it big on two IPOs in a row…made $500,000 in what amounted to extra pay in 6 years time. Plus I was a technical writer and made $90 grand to $100 grand when I was working.
I did refinance but never took money out…my whole goal was to pay off my house as fast as possible, and I did. Had I not done the remodel I would have been better off, but I was making good money and wanted a nice place.
Also, how much is left to pay on your mortgage? You are 23 years in on a 30 year.
Linda, why not just sell and rent, then? You would have some cash from the sale - something which you would not have had if you had rented all those years.
In many years of paying for my home, I made extra payments on the principal. Other times, I just made an extra payment ahead of schedule. To do my analysis, I went through my checkbooks to see what I paid. I offered this information to this crowd because I thought it would be of interest. It took me two days to go through all my checkbook stubs.
Therefore I = $236K in interest. That is, interest was 130% of principal. Even with paying down in 12 years and multiple refinances, that still must have been a whopper of an interest rate. For reference, I’m doing the 13-payments-a-year thing (22.5 yr until payoff), and my interest will be 52% of principal.
But shouldn’t a simple total pay buy vs. total pay rent be sufficient? In total, she effectively paid $268K to live there for 23 years. If she had rented, she would have paid about $400K* in rent. And that’s including the expensive renovations and HOA fees etc. AND if she stays in her paid-off house even longer, that’s a lot more rent saved. Despite what she says, buying was in clearly her favor.
——————
*A quick and dirty appoximation of rent increases: $1000/month for 136 months, and $2000/month for the next 136 months –> $408K rent.
You are not comparing apples to apples…if you “just rented”, you would have had to pay a lot of money that you would have “been ahead” over those 272 months. In other words, part of the $268k you would have “been ahead” would have been paid in rent.
The $268k is the difference between what you paid and what you are getting. 272 months. $268k divided by 272 months equals $985 per month.
Could you have rented a place as nice for $985 per month for all 272 months?
Why are you dividing $268k by 272? I paid out $691,381 for the privilege of owning a home. Where I to pay out rent money during the 272 months of living there, I would have been able to have afforded rent of $2540 or so. Rents in 1989 were far lower than $2540, so over time, I would have saved a lot more money by renting than by owning. I was fascinated but dismayed by this discovery - I always thought you were money ahead by owning a home. Now I know better.
I passed this information on to my step-daughter-to-be and she felt better about being in her present situation of renting.
Your net cost was $268k (since you ended up with a home worth over $400k net of sales commissions). So, you paid $268k over 23 years ($985 per month) for the privilege of owning a home.
You WOULD HAVE PAID $___________ per month over 272 months for the privilege of renting a home.
The over/under is $985 per month. If on average it would have cost you less than $985 per month to rent the home, you would have been better off renting. If on average, it would have cost you more than $985 per month to rent the home, you would have been better off buying.
This analysis of course does not include the cost of capital over that timeframe.
Said another way, you paid $691k, but got back $423k.
If you paid $691k in rents ($2,540 per month), you would get back $0.
This is why the analysis on rent should be done on the net, not gross.
The net is $985 per month, not $2,540 per month.
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Comment by Linda
2012-10-16 14:47:40
I’ve listed my place for $449,000. What I’ll gross is after the realtors take their share, which is close to $423,00.
The bottom line is, as I am now retired, I regret having paid so much money for a home, especially a townhouse. I think I would have been better off renting or buying a single family home. The association fees are now $435 a month. Taxes are $4,000 a year. I’m selling and using the proceeds to buy into my fiance’s home so that his kids don’t kick me out if he goes first.
Comment by sfhomowner
2012-10-16 15:10:56
I think I would have been better off renting or buying a single family home.
That’s the kicker right there.
Condo fees are taking their toll on my retired mother and her (now) very valuable Upper West side apartment.
My thought as well. Rents in the early 90’s CA. were running 10% of the monthly mortgage. A (let’s say) then-$300K valued house would be renting for somewhere north of $2800 a month. And that’s without calculating in inflation and moving costs.
We kept a similar rental in Newport between 1987 and 2002 and the rents went from $2600 a month to over $4000 in that period. That $985 wouldn’t have got you a 2/1 apartment in Lawndale.
The third quarter just ended. Might have something to do with that; maybe the auditors got religion or something.
Comment by palmetto
2012-10-16 07:02:57
I dunno. Sometimes I wonder if these Indian guys are being made the whipping boys for Wall Street sins, like Rajaratnam and Gupta. Hope Pandit didn’t get sucked into the vortex as well.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:06:20
Dark skinned foreigners go to prison.
White Skull and Bones society members walk free.
Comment by palmetto
2012-10-16 07:14:39
That’s sort of along the lines of what I was thinking, although Gupta and Pandit are not particularly dark skinned. But they’re foreign.
Comment by scdave
2012-10-16 07:32:06
White Skull and Bones society members walk free ??
And live in Crawford & Jackson Hole…..
Comment by Ross Peroxide
2012-10-16 07:53:40
are not particularly dark skinned
The preferred nomenclature is “naturally tanned”
Comment by Neuromance
2012-10-16 08:56:57
The Bair book just came out talking about how Pandit was in over his head from the start. That might have given his opponents sufficient ammunition to topple him.
If he actually winds up serving time, then the trifecta will be in play.
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2012-10-16 13:14:33
“…about how Pandit was in over his head from the start.”
That might explain why he resigned as CEO. But why would he also resign from the Board? I suspect his abrupt complete break with Citi has more to do with future news than personal retirement.
It will never end as long as government is involved in keeping “college” affordable.
It is ironic - isn’t it? The more government gets involved, the more they try “help” keep costs down, the more money government spends - the more educational costs go up.
It is also the same with housing and health care.
The only way to reduce the cost of college is to get government OUT of financing/guaranteeing educational costs. This also includes allowing student debt to be wiped out in bankruptcy.
Nearly overnight, college cost would start the long journey DOWN back to affordability.
—————————–
Well-Off Will Benefit Most From Change to Student Debt Relief Plan, Study Says
New York Times | October 16, 2012 | ANDREW MARTIN
With nearly one in six student loan borrowers in default, the federal government is making changes to its income-based repayment plan to help borrowers with relatively high debt and low incomes keep up with their payments.
But a report that will be released on Tuesday by the New America Foundation, a nonprofit and nonpartisan policy institute, says the changes ultimately will provide only marginal help for low-income borrowers who are at the greatest risk of default.
Rather, the changes would provide big benefits to middle- and high-income borrowers, particularly for those seeking a graduate degree, the authors found. The report says that at least one financial planning company is telling law school students that the changes could allow them to write off $100,000 in student debt.
…
The New America Foundation report says the changes to income-based repayment could provide some benefits to all participants. But the primary beneficiaries would be high-income, high-debt participants who could make relatively small payments for 20 years and then have a large part of their debt forgiven, the authors said.
The foundation cites as an example advice given by financial planners such as the Advantage Group in California.
“Stop wasting your money on student loan payments,” says the Advantage Group Web site. The firm notes that an average graduate from California Western School of Law owes more than $145,000 in student loans, amounting to monthly payments of more than $1,690.
But the changes introduced by the Obama administration could allow a graduate making $70,000 a year to reduce monthly payments to $448 a month and “have over $100,000 of debt forgiven,” the Advantage Group says.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:08:41
It is ironic - isn’t it? The more government gets involved, the more they try “help” keep costs down, the more money government spends - the more educational costs go up.
I noticed you managed to get in your usual insinuation that ‘it’s all Obama’s fault’ at the bottom of your post This trend was in place before Obama was in office.
Isn’t there a “WE HATE OBAMA” blog somewhere that you could take your rage?
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:25:36
Reading these anti-Obama diatribes gets so boring. Trouble is, the other HBB posts in response to them don’t make much sense if you invoke the Joshua Tree Extension to screen them out.
“Obama in the White House for 4 years. A super majority in Senate. A filibuster proof senate.”
This is troll territory. I have disputed your two year super majority claim several times and yet you still continue to spout it as fact.
Effectively, Obama never had a super majority, because some conservative Democrats sided with Republicans on some issues and NO Republicans ever crossed party lines.
I support those Democrats that cross party lines. I think it is better for democracy when parties are not able to enforce discipline so strongly as the Republicans have been able to do.
The Democrats only had the 60 votes needed to override filibusters 4.5 months and those 4.5 months were early in Obama’s term and at a point where Obama still thought the Repubs would work with him on stuff. At that point it was the politically wise choice to not ram stuff through on 60 vote party line votes.
This false argument “super majority in the Senate” is also a disingenuous argument as it implies Obama should have rammed things through on a one party line whereas the one thing that Obama did on party lines (ObamaCare) is now derided by the Repubs as being “shoved down our throats”. The Repubs do not argue issues seriously.
But NOTHING is obama’s fault.
Nothing? You find it impossible to fathom someone might not like Obama much but will still vote for him over the Repub losers? This kind of thinking would be expected from a child or someone with an IQ of about 85. It’s all-or-nothing type statement that shows a lack of critical thinking. And that you repeatedly do it after being called on it shows that you might not have the capacity to understand what I just wrote.
Sorry to interrupt the “coke vs pepsi” psuedo-debate, but one interesting figure is 1/6th of the kids are in default, but via other sources I’m seeing only 1/2 of new grads are getting “real jobs”. So a bit of high level engineerin’ math and assume all the defaulters are the kids without real jobs, and I figure about 1/3 of kids should soon be in default but are not in default. Why? Or more like “how”? Does waiting tables pay that well? Or “Zumba instruction”? What does a kid with $150K in student loan debt and no job do to not enter default? Enter .mil? Double down into grad school?
P.S. My state was going 100% odds to Obama so I was not getting pelted with robocalls and junk mail until now, but its approaching very near 50/50 I’m getting roughly one robocall every two hours during the day, multiple campaign flyers in the mail every day, even getting door to door Obama supporters now, none of them have jobs so plenty of time to go door2door, not sure where the Rmoney supporters are, probably out burning crosses. I’m voting Johnson because neither Mr coke nor Mr pepsi appeal to me in any manner and I don’t want to throw my vote away. I just thought it was interesting to report that I haven’t seen this level of advertising since the peak of the bubble (when I used to get 3 or 4 credit card, agent, and mortgage offers Per Day in the mail, etc). I would imagine this is extremely bullish for media/spam companies and the unemployment rate … at least until mid November.
The party of the KKK is the democratic party
The party of Jim Crow Laws is the democratic party
The party of segregation is the democratic party
The party that filibustered Civil Rights Legislation for 20 years is the democratic party
I know you went to public school and don’t believe me. So Google it.
Rmoney supporters are, probably out burning crosses.
The Southern Democrats are now Republicans and switched over civil rights. But you knew that.
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Comment by nickpapageorgio
2012-10-16 18:53:27
“The Southern Democrats are now Republicans and switched over civil rights. But you knew that.”
You guys keep trying that one…the jig is up. It’s patently false, how stupid do you think people are? Do they teach that lie in communism 101 or 102?. Oh, and he left out Bull Connor, he was also a Democrat.
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2012-10-16 19:03:49
It’s patently false, how stupid do you think people are?
Keep writing and we’ll get a better idea Nicole.
Comment by Happy2bHeard
2012-10-16 20:51:28
“Oh, and he left out Bull Connor, he was also a Democrat.”
How many Democrats are left in Alabama now? It was reliably Democrat up until the Civil Rights Act passed. Shortly thereafter it became reliably Republican. Do you really contend that all of those southern racist Democrats suddenly became not racist when they switched to the Republican party?
And this is why many of us who MIGHT vote republican don’t. Because they BECAME the party of bigotry. If republicans were still the republicans of Abe Lincoln’s time, they would be pushing for legalizing gay marriage. It’s a completely weird deal how the parties changed sides on the ’social liberties’ fence.
I’m downright sad. No one wants to talk about why only 1/6th of the kids are defaulting when job stats show about 1/2 should be in default.
I honestly wonder if its a “shadow inventory” like housing. Perhaps for political reasons, in which case the big story in a couple months will be the default rate expanding from 1/6 now to 1/2 in the near future. “no one ever could have predicted…”
Or if not political reasons, maybe they just don’t have the manpower to file all the paperwork … after all … nondischargeable … so you’ve got a lifetime to collect from young kids. Who knows, maybe after the 2nd great depression, during WWIII they’ll get high paying jobs?
Or intentionally sit on it waiting for inflation to do its magic?
Or the kids are discharging it some other way? Put it all on cash advance credit cards, let it season a couple months, bankruptcy, flush…
I’ll just repeat… I’m sad, I honestly wanted to know how this part of the credit bubble works.
Sorry Vince, all I have is speculation at this point.
Some are doubling down to grad school. Some are living with parents to reduce expenses while paying their loans off.
Some of the defaulters are going abroad. So not only are we sending jobs out of the country, but now we are forcing our educated youngsters there as well.
I haven’t seen any numbers to support which options are being taken by how many people.
Nor have I seen anything about how many of the new grads are older folks who went for retraining when their jobs went poof. They may no longer care about SS because the banks will claim it.
I just had an interesting thought. Will the banks favor keeping SS as is so they can collect on student loans?
Maybe we can reduce the cost of National Defense by getting the Federal government OUT of it.
All of those countries that formerly relied on our free protective shield can jsut call the mercenaries at Blackwater, or Xe, or whatever they are calling themselves now.
“Citigroup Inc Chief Executive Vikram Pandit is stepping down, effective immediately, and will be succeeded by Michael Corbat.
“Given the progress we have made in the last few years, I have concluded that now is the right time for someone else to take the helm at Citigroup,” Mr. Pandit said in a statement.
Mr. Pandit became CEO at Citigroup in December 2007 and spent the earlier part of his career at Morgan Stanley.
President and Chief Operating Officer John P. Havens also resigned.
Mr. Havens had been planning to retire from Citi at year-end but decided, in light of Mr. Pandit’s resignation, to leave the company now.”
I mean, I can understand someone wanting to leave their gig, people do it all the time, but usually with a corporation, unless the person is being “ousted” by the board, there’s usually some sort of runway, with successors being considered, etc.
Wasn’t he getting some token $1.00 a year salary? I couldn’t live on that, lol.
Must’ve had a heckuva bonus and benefits package, though.
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Comment by Combotechie
2012-10-16 06:59:09
And maybe grateful (and very generous) friends/business associates.
Comment by Combotechie
2012-10-16 07:00:57
(It’s a private club, and you ain’t in it.)
Comment by palmetto
2012-10-16 07:06:17
Interesting. I was just reading yesterday something about one of the Pritzkers in Chicago setting up some sort of retirement estate in Hawaii for the Obamas, to the tune of $30 million.
Nope, I”m not in that private club that has benefactors.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 06:42:04
Do you notice the similarity between posers who are paid to post pretend political views on blogs and those people who were paid to live in otherwise-vacant homes to show they were occupied?
We are becoming a pretend society of paid prostitutes. I find the trend quite disturbing.
“We are becoming a pretend society of paid prostitutes”
$hit flows downhill. The example is set at the top.
And I don’t mean just the folks in Wallington. I see this now with even small businesses. Buddy of mine has a gig with a small business and has done quite well in his area, boosting sales, customer relations, etc. Who got the bonuses? Management. And then they added insult to injury by hiring on a family friend of one of the managers, who is non-productive, but who is siphoning off the business my bud brought in, through a “re-assignment” of territory.
Poor guy is a mess, all this happened just as he thought he’d be recognized for two years of hard work. He worked to create a job for a parasite.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:27:55
I worked for one for a couple of years. The owner, who was a money guy who didn’t know the actual details of the operation, would come in and out of work between rounds of golf. When he was around, he sat in the biggest office in the building and chain smoked.
“Veteran natural-gas trader John Woods has a simple trading strategy around data on U.S. gas stockpiles: Stay away.
Mr. Woods and other floor traders on the New York Mercantile Exchange used to look forward to the weekly report of gas-inventory figures by the U.S. Energy Information Administration, widely considered the best reading of gas supply and demand in the U.S. Traders would be glued to their computers before the data’s release at 10:30am on Thursdays, ready to dive into the busiest trading window of the week.
But in the past few months, unusual trading patterns have pushed many seasoned traders to the sidelines. One reason for the irregular activity is a strategy known as “banging the beehive,” in which high-speed traders send a flood of orders in an effort to trigger huge price swings just before the data hit.”
“They showed up there and they did not have permission. They got one of the volunteers to open up the doors… The photo-op they did wasn’t even accurate. He did nothing. He just came in here to get his picture taken at the dining hall.” - President of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, Brian J. Antal
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:28:34
Propaganda technique #100,001: Take a post that asks a very innocuous question about Paul Ryan and compliments Romney on his volunteerism and pretend that it was some kind of political dig.
Being familiar with Youngstown and northeastern Ohio and the deindustrialization of the last three decades, that’s just too cute showing up at a soup kitchen to feed the Lucky Duckies whose jobs were outsourced because of the business practices of his vulture capitalist running mate, LOLZ!
Over the weekend, I was at the public library’s screening of the documentary “As Goes Janesville.” It described what happened to Janesville, Wisconsin after the GM plant closed. (Think “Roger and Me” and Flint, Michigan moved to the western side of Lake Michigan.)
One of the audience members was from Janesville. She used to work for the law firm where Paul Ryan’s dad worked. She described both father and son as being VERY unpleasant people.
OTOH, last year, after the January 8 shootings, there was a huge shrine set up outside the University Medical Center. That’s where the victims were treated.
Any-hoo, I made quite a few trips to the shrine. A lot of us locals did that. It was how we coped with such an awful thing happening in our town.
During one shrine visit, I got to talking with a University Medical Center security guard. He was on duty when the Obamas came to visit the hospital on January 12, 2011. The guard described both Barack and Michelle as very nice people.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 07:18:52
The U.S. is going to build its way back to prosperity…
Oct. 16, 2012, 10:00 a.m. EDT
Oct. builder sentiment edges up to six-year high
By Steve Goldstein
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Builder confidence in October edged higher to mark the sixth gain in a row and the top reading in more than six years, a trade group said Tuesday in the latest indicator of a revival in the housing market. The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo housing market index nudged up 1 point to 41, marking the highest level since June 2006. Economists polled by MarketWatch anticipated a slightly better read of 42. Still, the index - which historically has a very strong correlation with single-family housing starts - has surged from as low as 17 in Oct. 2011, even though it hasn’t reached the 50 level indicating more builders than not see good conditions. In October, the component measuring current sales conditions stayed at 42 and the component measuring sales prospects for the next six months stayed at 51. The index measuring traffic of prospective buyers rose 5 points to 35, the highest level since April 2006.
We got hit with the increase 2 years and 3 months into our tenancy because we briefly went month-to-month (because of possible job relocation) and upon signing a new lease they added half of the month-to-month premium into the monthly rent.
They have replaced the building’s elevators, redone the landscaping, weather treated the window frames, and restriped the parking lot since we moved in, and next year they are replacing the rooftop deck.
It really sucks after “throwing money away” on rent to have all this money left over to buy new skis and a ski pass, fly to Florida this winter, and buy a new car next summer. Loanownership is for LOOSERS!
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Comment by oxide
2012-10-16 08:43:07
to have all this money left over to buy new skis and a ski pass, fly to Florida this winter, and buy a new car next summer.
I hope you’re packing at least some of that left over money into a savings account.
Comment by goon squad
2012-10-16 10:04:53
Yes we are, and receiving a whopping 0.1% APY on it from local credit union. Trying our best to avoid doing business with TARP banks or the Wall Street parasites. If we “invest” in anything it would be something bland like Fidelity’s S&P index fund (FUSEX).
And to Bill-in-wherever’s post sometime ago that skiing is a waste of money, yes it is at Vail, Breckenridge, Aspen, and the other big name resorts. Most of our skiing will be National Forest backcountry, costing only the gas to get there.
Manhattan apartment rents surged in September, coming within 2.1 percent of the peak, as improving employment boosted competition among tenants.
The median monthly rent jumped to $3,195, up 10 percent from a year earlier and 3.2 percent from August, according to a report today by appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. and broker Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate. The number of new leases signed last month jumped 55 percent from a year earlier to 2,535, as renters facing sharp renewal increases moved out in search of better deals, said Jonathan Miller, president of New York-based Miller Samuel.
“This is not a fluke,” he said. “This is where the die has been cast for the next year or two years.”
Improving employment in the city has increased demand for leasing, putting monthly rents on course to surpass the 2006 peak of $3,265 in the first quarter of 2013, according to Miller. Newly hired potential tenants are competing for housing in a market already crowded with would-be homebuyers who are lingering in their apartments because they can’t get a mortgage, he said. New York City added 77,400 jobs in the 12 months through August, according to the state Labor Department.
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Comment by Housing Deflation
2012-10-16 08:17:15
Yes… even rental rates in Manhattan are under pressure and FALLING.
‘The back-and-forth bickering over the tragedy in Benghazi has focused on so many trees that the forest never came into view. Not only did the hearing fall far short in establishing genuine accountability, it was bereft of vision. Without vision, the old proverb says, the people perish — and that includes American diplomats. The killings in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012, validate that wisdom. If the U.S. does not change the way it relates to the rest of the world, and especially to the Muslim world, more and more people will perish. If we persist on the aggressive path we are on, Americans will in no way be safer.’
‘It is a lot easier, of course, to attack a defenseless Muslim country, like Libya, when a supine House of Representatives forfeits the prerogative reserved to Congress by the Constitution to authorize and fund wars — or to refuse to authorize and fund them.’
‘At Tuesday’s hearing, Kucinich noted that in Libya “we intervened, absent constitutional authority.” Most of his colleagues reacted with the equivalent of a deep yawn, as though Kucinich had said something “quaint” and “obsolete.” Like most of their colleagues in the House, most Oversight Committee members continue to duck this key issue, which directly involves one of the most important powers/duties given the Congress in Article I of the Constitution.’
‘Many of those now doing their best to make political hay out of the Benghazi “scandal” are the same legislators who appealed strongly for the U.S. to bomb Libya and remove Gadhafi. This, despite it having been clear from the start that eastern Libya had become a new beachhead for al-Qaeda and other terrorists. From the start, it was highly uncertain who would fill the power vacuums in the east and in Tripoli.’
‘As Congress failed to exercise its constitutional duties — to debate and vote on wars — Obama, along with his Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Hillary Clinton, took a page out of the Bush/Cheney book and jumped into a new war. On Libya, the Obama administration dissed Congress even more blatantly than Cheney and Bush did on Iraq, where there was at least the charade of a public debate, albeit perverted by false claims about Iraq’s WMDs and Saddam Hussein’s ties to al-Qaeda.’
‘And so Defense Secretary Panetta and Secretary of State Clinton stepped off cheerily to strike Libya with the same kind of post-war plan that Cheney, Bush, and then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had for Iraq — none. Small wonder chaos reigns in Benghazi and other parts of the country.’
‘Constitutionally, the craven Congress is a huge part of the problem. Only a few members of the House and Senate seem to care very much when presidents act like kings and send off troops drawn largely by a poverty draft to wars not authorized (or simply rubber-stamped) by Congress.’
‘At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 7, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Alabama, pursued this key issue with Panetta and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey. Chafing ex post facto at the unauthorized nature of the war in Libya, Sessions asked repeatedly what “legal basis” would the Obama administration rely on to do in Syria what it did in Libya.’
‘Watching that part of the testimony it seemed to me that Sessions, a conservative Southern lawyer, was not at all faking when he pronounced himself “almost breathless,” as Panetta stonewalled time after time. Panetta made it explicitly clear that the administration does not believe it needs to seek congressional approval for wars like Libya. At times he seemed to be quoting verses from the Book of Cheney.’
‘Sessions: “I am really baffled … The only legal authority that’s required to deploy the U.S. military [in combat] is the Congress and the president and the law and the Constitution.”
‘Panetta: “Let me just for the record be clear again, Senator, so there is no misunderstanding. When it comes to national defense, the president has the authority under the Constitution to act to defend this country, and we will, Sir.’
‘Since the advent of Madeleine Albright as secretary of state in 1997, the United States has become increasingly ideologically committed to the spreading of “instant powdered democracy” in every nation of the world, as defined and approved by the United States. Russia and China have become the main “conservative” or “right-wing” powers committed to preserving the status quo.’
‘Ironically, the U.S. commitment to continual revolution around the world is a revival of the discredited concepts of Leon Trotsky. Nikita Khrushchev revived Trotsky’s disastrous concept: he and his successor, Leonid Brezhnev, drained their superpower dry by pouring resources into promoting revolution throughout the developing world, from 1954 in Egypt to Afghanistan in 1979-87. This led to the collapse of the Soviet system.’
‘Today, it is the United States under presidents of both parties that has embraced the Trotskyite delusion. The bipartisan policy of the United States has become Permanent Revolution until Total and Perfect Democracy is finally achieved. This can only end the way it ended for Maximilien Robespierre in the French Revolution and for Trotsky in the Bolshevik one.’
‘It is fitting that so many of the older generation of American neoconservatives started life as communist enthusiasts in the 1930s and ’40s. For today’s neocons are really neo-Trotskyites promoting the old, doomed enthusiasms under a new label.’
‘Democracy works admirably in societies where it is allowed to develop organically. But when other governments try to accelerate its growth artificially or hasten its triumph from outside, especially when they resort to military force to do so, the result is almost always a fierce reaction against the forces of democracy. This reaction often generates extreme fascist, repressive, and intolerant forces. And these forces usually win and take power. Then they impose themselves on the societies in question, delaying any real democratic development for decades or generations.’
‘The efforts of the French Revolutionaries and Napoleon to export liberty, equality, and brotherhood across Europe by fire and sword instead ensured the survival of the old traditional empires for another 120 years. The efforts of Lenin and Trotsky to export socialism and communism by similar means were even more catastrophic. The backlash against them in Germany propelled Adolf Hitler to power.’
‘It is not in America’s interests to follow in those footsteps—to put it mildly.’
Dennis Kucinich… who along with Ron Paul will be leaving Congress this year. With a ticket of those two we could have had a single payer national health care system and an end to the military industrial complex.
Instead we get R/R or O/B to “choose” from. At least Kucinich has a hot young wife to enjoy in his retirement.
Johnson’s not on the ballot in your state? I know he got blocked in a couple states.
R/R and O/B don’t want to support me, fine I won’t support them. I’m voting for Johnson. You should too. Don’t throw your vote away on a D or R…
They might both be evil, but they’re smart enough to figure out what policies might get me to vote for them. My dream outcome for the election is all the battleground states have a margin of victory for D or R smaller than the # of Johnson votes. That Might result in a better 2016.
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Comment by goon squad
2012-10-16 09:30:45
Johnson is on the ballot here in Colorado and thanks to a marijuana decriminilization inititiative is “stealing” votes from both R’s and D’s. We will be voting for him, and as posted here recently, am hoping for a rerun of Florida 2000 here with our 9 lowly electoral votes deciding the race
Comment by Carl Morris
2012-10-16 12:29:05
I may be joining you. This election is a tough one for me.
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2012-10-16 14:17:42
Don’t throw your vote away on a D or R…
+1, vince. Only when you’re not voting your conscience, are you really throwing your vote away.
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2012-10-16 14:28:22
I donated money to Obama’s campaign as the most likey way to keep Romney out of the office, but since my state will go to Obama, I am free to vote for Jill Stein. I REALLY wish we’d switch to ranked run-offs. Then I could vote Stein->Johnson->Wiley E. Coyote->Obama->Romney.
At least Kucinich has a hot young wife to enjoy in his retirement.
She will leave him if he doesn’t land another powerful position somewhere else.
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Comment by goon squad
2012-10-16 09:33:53
He will do just fine in academia or non-profits. He has one of the lowest net worths in Congress so the wife isn’t in it just for money.
Comment by oxide
2012-10-16 10:22:48
Just saw them at the Green Festival in Washington. I don’t think she’ll leave him. Elizabeth was an activist since she was like, 12, so money was never an object for her.
If they had a super-majority in the house and filibuster proof senate.
Oh wait…
Dennis Kucinich… who along with Ron Paul will be leaving Congress this year. With a ticket of those two we could have had a single payer national health care system and an end to the military industrial complex.
‘Why do we even have to be involved with all of these foreign wars’
We don’t, but then the question is why are we?
It’s getting a lot worse. One bit of blow-back from the Libya intervention was the arms flowing in to Mali and who takes over? Now the White House is preparing for intervention there.
Just consider this from McGovern’s piece:
‘And were the witnesses aware of al-Qaeda’s growing presence in Libya, Kucinich asked. One of the witnesses, Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, an Army Green Beret who led a 16-member Special Forces security team to protect Americans in Libya from February to August, replied that al-Qaeda’s “presence grows every day. They are certainly more established than we are.”
‘Congressman Kucinich went on to ask the witnesses if they knew how many shoulder-to-air missiles were on the loose in Libya. Nordstrom: “Ten to twenty thousand.”
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Comment by Albuquerquedan
2012-10-16 09:38:26
Remember I was against the Libyan intervention. Since the people most against Khadaffi were from the eastern part of the country and that area provided many fighters to Iraq to fight our troops it was a no brainer to see it would not end well.
I am also against any intervention in Syria but it is a closer call since it is an ally of Iran. But it seems to me the best policy is a long war where Sunni Islamic fundamentalists go to die fighting Hezbollah forces with Iran being bled by the cost of propping up Syria. The Gulf states can finance it and we can enjoy eating popcorn here watching the nuts kill each other.
Comment by measton
2012-10-16 15:18:56
We are in these places because of oil.
Can anyone think of something the US might do that would reduce our consumption of oil??
A-dan??
Comment by measton
2012-10-16 15:19:59
Seems like driving a VOLT which might reduce gas consumption 50-90% might be a good idea.
Maybe all these costs of war should be paid for with a gas tax.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:34:22
By contrast, Romney is planning to ramp up military spending in order to…
NOT INTERVENE AS MUCH???
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:35:34
Reduce housing prices so that people don’t have to trade off commute distance so extremely against housing cost?
Here in Tucson, the student housing building frenzy continues unabated. Meanwhile, in many neighborhoods near the University of Arizona, there are quite a few SFRs and apartment complexes with “for rent” signs.
We could use a building frenzy here in the City by the Bay. 49 square miles, water on 3 sides. There’s plenty of land (well, not plenty, but some) and while SF is the 2nd densest city in the country (after Manhattan), there are too many NIMBYs here complaining about tall buildings being an eyesore. These are the same people who complain about high rents, I suspect.
Who can forget the heady days of the housing boom when property flippers would follow condo developers around like hungry wolves, waiting to pounce on new projects before one grain of earth had moved?
Property auctions for single family homes weren’t any different, as novice buyers were scooping up multiple properties only to flip them for a profit in a matter of weeks.
Those days are gone; the price appreciation is gone, and the funding is gone…but apparently the flippers are back. Some of them never left. Close to 100,000 properties were flipped in the first six months of this year, according to RealtyTrac, which defines flipping as a home bought and sold within six months. That is a 25 percent jump from a year ago. But flipping is not what it used to be.
“There is this kind of middle man investor who is doing the flipping,” says RealtyTrac’s Daren Blomquist, who ran a webinar last month titled, “Why Property Flipping is Flying High in 2012.” Blomquist says the difference for today’s flippers is that they must add value to the home before selling, because price appreciation alone won’t net the profit they seek. That means rehabbing, which can be pricey, depending on the condition of the property. Many of the distressed homes now that flippers seek have been either ransacked by former owners or left vacant and untended for years.
“You don’t see any of that highly speculative flipping where it’s solely reliant on the home prices going up for the flip to work,” says Blomquist, which is why many flippers are middle men. They flip to other investors in order to get the profit they need. “It’s probably easier to flip to another investor because this person is an experienced buyer and should have their ducks in a row in terms of being able to finance the property, if not pay up front in cash.”
Large-scale, big money investors, like hedge funds, have flooded the single family real estate market, looking for rental properties that will produce good yield. While some have their own teams attending foreclosure auctions and doing the rehabilitation and remodeling, many would rather buy turn-key products, even if the price is slightly higher. The “pure” property flip appears to be less popular, although in some stronger markets it is certainly still happening.
“I have seen a return of flipping, but only at the individual or small investor level. In some cases, these investors are targeting larger, institutional investors as potential buyers,” says Rick Sharga of Carrington Mortgage Holdings, a large fund investing in single family rentals. “I haven’t seen institutional investors doing much flipping (although they will occasionally sell off a few properties from a pool if the homes don’t fit their business model).”
Investors planning a REIT would not be flippers, Sharga notes, as what they need is a large pool of rental homes delivering the cash flow a REIT would require. Most of the larger investors are paying market price (sometimes a little less, sometimes more), which makes profitable flipping difficult.
Until the rental market chills and the housing market shows strong price gains, pure property flipping will not be nearly as lucrative as it once was. On the positive side, continued strength in the single family rental market and the ensuing large investors interest offers smaller investors willing to do the dirty work a large pool of cash-heavy buyers.
I can get 3 pair buddys jeans for that, also made in america. They do wear better and last longer than the imports, Honestly I don’t know if they’ll ever wear out, which makes me wonder about their business model long term. I find them comfortable. I never really thought I’d ever be talking about my pants on the HBB, but compared to the nightmare of political sloganeering on both sides, it actually feels kinda good… Maybe tomorrow we can get the ladies talking about shoes to drown out the D+R talking points, never thought I’d hear myself wishing for that.
I am not a customer of texas jeans but I’ve heard good things about them, and they’re a little cheaper yet.
I’m sure the hope was to make his jeans a novelty that they’re the only american made ones… not so. Probably Beck told/forced them to price at $130 to make a political point about needing more H1Bs or more illegal immigration or more un-free trade or more socialized govt bailouts of garment mfgrs or less OSHA or less EPA or whatever because “ALL jeans would cost $130 IF jeans were made in the usa”…. especially if you conveniently carefully ignore the $20-$40 jeans already being made in the USA.
Another way to word that is who wants to get in Glenn Beck’s jeans? Which is is almost as ugly picture as the thought of a Kagan and Barney Frank threesome which was raised above.
$4 million to build a home that is now only worth $700,000?
——————————————————–
Popcorn lung couple who won $20m in lawsuit forced to sell $3.9m house
The Daily Mail Online | October 15, 2012 | Helen Pow
A Missouri couple has filed for bankruptcy just eight years after winning a $20 million lawsuit against the makers of a butter popcorn flavoring that gave one of them lung disease.
But just eight years later, the two are being forced to sell the home they built for $3.9 million to pay off creditors, after their financial situation went spectacularly downhill.
According to the Joplin Globe, the Peoples listed the current value of their residence and 10.5 acres of land at just $700,000 and personal property assets of nearly $33,000.
But their liabilities are listed at more than $611,000, including a $482,876 mortgage with U.S. Bank. The couple’s case against the butter flavouring companies was the first of several brought by workers and their spouses.
Since winning the lawsuit, Cassandra Peoples has also been employed by Smith Midwest Realty as a realtor. Social networking sites also indicate she helps run PJ’s Country Bakery in Joplin, Missouri.
The part that is to replace lost wages is taxed as ordinary income because it replaces something that would be ordinary income. The part that is to “make you whole” for the injury is not taxed (if I remember correctly) because you don’t get measurable income from being uninjured (other than the replaced wages mentioned above).
In the bit’s bucket yesterday, Mugsy mentioned a coworker who is planning on buying a different, much cheaper now house and letting the bank foreclose or shortsell the bubble-priced house they currently owned.
I said “Kudos for doing the fiscally responsible thing!” and several posters jumped on it as if we should be shocked and angered by Mugy’s coworker for not ‘living up to his promises’ etc.
I find it crazy that people on THIS blog would hold such corporate loving attitudes. A mortgage is a business contract with two acceptable outcomes. 1) Pay the money back. 2) Forfeit the house. Mugsy’s coworker is choosing 2 since the house is costing him X dollars, and he could buy a comparable house for, say, X/2 dollars. He’s not breaking any contracts or laws, and is doing what’s best for his family.
As for the repercussions people talked about, like having to pay cash for cars, or dinged credit reports, the coworker is doing a smart thing in buying before forfeiting, so he can get a good rate before his credit is dinged. Landlords don’t like bad credit, either, and housing is often the largest expense, and having to move periodically when renting could be much worse than having to save up to buy a new car from the credit rating perspective.
I just shake my head in wonder why people would call it ‘immoral’ for the coworker to exactly fulfill the terms of the contract. If he were fighting foreclosure with no intent of ever paying to get a free ride, I would be happy to jump on the bandwagon saying he’s a jerk, but he’s being straightforward and fulfilling the terms of his contract. If business did the same thing, everybody would shrug and say “business decision” but when a PERSON dares make a business decision, suddenly they are immoral scum and the bank is suddenly a victim. Bah!
It’s not the ‘banks’ money. It’s probably from someones 401k, or even more likely, the govt.
‘planning on buying a different, much cheaper now house and (then) letting the bank foreclose’
Wow, way to game the system. Why not walk away and rent? Noooo, they have to get a govt loan under the illusion that they pay their bills.
Anyway, this crap is why I don’t feel a lot of remorse when I throw FB’s cherished junk into the dump. Tell your friend someone like me will be around to kick them out of their ‘different, much cheaper now house’ when they walk away from that obligation too. Of course, we’ll all pay for it along with them.
It was not my friend, it was Mugsy’s coworker. And it is a completely rational business decision. Although I DO know several who did this in the east bay area. It’s funny how a lot of people here are laugh at the bank’s woes and exorcise them for making terrible loans, but when somebody who’s current on their loan comes to the realization it’s a terrible business decision and exercises the clause to allow them to exit the contract, suddenly the banks are ‘victims’ and grannies are going to suffer.
If you want to blame somebody for the loss of 401(k) funds or government bail outs, look at the bankers and the politicians, the liar loan originators (and greedy FBs who took out the liar loans), not the strategic defaulters. And of the 3 people that I personally know who strategically defaulted, all of them had SOME skin in the game, and took a loss from the down payment plus whatever they paid for the house over what it would have cost them to rent an equivalent house. They just did the math (that they should have done in 2007) and made the obvious decision.
I blame them all. FB’s are the first to whine about being victims. This little switcheroo isn’t ethical, no matter how you slice it. It’s one thing to walk away, it’s another to arrange for a new loan before you do it.
BTW, nobody has been harder on lenders and politicians than me. I was calling them on their BS when the media was calling them hero’s for ‘getting people into houses’.
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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2012-10-16 11:29:29
Strategic Defaulters are not FBs. They typically bought what they could afford, had skin in the game, and are completely current on their loan. There is no proviso in the mortgage that precludes them from buying other property, or for moving into that other property. FBs, on the other hand, bought houses they knew they couldn’t afford, usually with loans the banks knew they couldn’t afford, with both parties knowing that if housing didn’t continue to shoot into the stratosphere, they were doomed, doomed, doomed.
Strategic defaulters realized that they agreed to pay X for something that can now be had for X/2, and are exercising the exit clause on their contract. Businesses do this when lease prices on office space plummet and they’re locked into long term leases. Of course, in that case they can typically renegotiate the lease with the threat of exercising their lease breaking clauses. Mortgages have no ability to really do that, so they are doing that.
I find it interesting that the thing that tips you over to ‘unethical’ is the fact that they are buying another house. Walking away and letting the grannies/banks suck it up while they go to rent is fine, but not if they’re going to buy.
‘the thing that tips you over to ‘unethical’ is the fact that they are buying another house’
All the strategic defaulters are unethical. (So are most regular FB’s). Have you ever had someone renege on some money owed to you?
‘letting the grannies/banks suck it up while they go to rent is fine’
I didn’t say that. It’s also not fine to trash the house, leave pets to die. Put the neighbors through hell.
‘Strategic Defaulters are not FBs’.
Then why don’t they just pay up? Oh, it’s a business decision. We know that business decisions are always ethical…
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:43:23
“Have you ever had someone renege on some money owed to you?”
In other contexts, this is known as stealing. For instance, shoplifting consists of removing an item from a store after reneging on the money owed for the purchase.
Yes he is breaking the contract. The contract was a promise to pay. Foreclosure is the prescribed penalty for breaking the contract. He is breaking the contract and his pledge to pay. He likes the penalty better than his promise.
“doing a smart thing in buying before forfeiting, so he can get a good rate…”
He is a liar and a cheat and it is fraud. He knows that he is about to do something that will negatively affect his credit rating and he is going to pull one over on the lender. It is the same as failing to mention that he got fired from his job yesterday.
Maybe the shorter version is I wish every time I gambled with a call option and ended up out of the money, someone would lecture my counterparty about how its a moral obligation for them to pay me money even though I lost.
Unlike, say, paying taxes, noone has a gun pointing at anyone’s head when options contracts are bought and sold, so I’m not buying the whole boo hoo victim thing. I’m a genuine boo hoo victim when I pay my taxes.
I might gamble with options, but please show me respect anyway because I’m not a scum of the earth crook, like a banker, I only gamble with my own legally earned money not other peoples money that they trusted me with, I don’t hire govt thugs to take citizens tax money and give it to me when I lose big bets, and I actually live up to my options contracts unlike lots of (most?) real estate players on both sides. I think that’s why you’ll occasionally hear the Marxist types whining about speculators and blame us for random bad things, the reason they do that is we make the rest of the financial system look like the crooks they are.
investment property. lots of people I work with are buying.. I don’t know ..?
Investing in your 401(k): The mistake people make is not that they invest in their 401(k) but that they invest only in their 401(k). Successful retirees diversify their income streams by investing in income producing vehicles such as investment properties to provide an alternative income stream in retirement. With interest rates so low right now, and a continued inventory of foreclosures and short sales, purchasing rental property may be an alternative investment for pre-retirees who don’t mind owning tangible assets and managing them.
Investment property owners get tax breaks along the way, too. Expenses such as depreciation and property management fees may be deductible, and if modified adjusted gross income is $150,000 or more, the losses are suspended but they carry forward to offset future rental income or capital gains when the property is sold. If the property has been held for more than one year, gains are taxed at favorable long-term capital gain tax rates.
Tip: Invest in, but also “think outside,” the 401(k). A Roth IRA provides tax-free income in retirement. Taxable accounts have advantages, too. With individual securities and mutual funds, you can “harvest” losses—matching your long-term losses against any long-term capital gains—to reduce tax liability. You can’t do that with a traditional pre-tax 401(k)—every dime you withdrawal is taxable at the higher ordinary income tax rates.
Isn’t the most important tax break for investment property capital loss carryover?
I am not a tax lawyer but it boils down to when you lose your shirt on investment property you can use that immense loss to offset taxable gains into the future.
Say you had a net worth of $2.1M and invest $1.1M in real estate which obviously drops to 100K and $1M in gold which increases the next year (or whatever) to $2M. Superficially you’d owe $1M worth of capital gains on the gold. Soon thats going to be roughly 20% (depending on bracket) or $200K. So without cap loss carry over, you’d end up with a net worth at the end of $100K worth of abandoned slum property, $2M of gold, and a $200K tax bill for a net worth of $1.9M (a loss, given you started at $2.1M)
With capital loss carryover, my limited understanding is you could sell the real estate (or more likely foreclose, short sale, just walk away while collecting rent checks, etc) at a loss, then apply that loss in a later year against the gold sale. Since the loss = the gain in this example the net tax would be zero. So the final net worth would be $100K of abandoned slum property, $2M of gold, for a net worth of $2.1M (broke even, given you started at $2.1M)
Of course if you just threw the whole $2.1M into gold, knowing the fed is going to print into hyperinflation, you’d have doubled $2.1M instead of $1M. You’d still owe 20% capgains on the $2.1M gain which would be $420K. For a net worth of $4.2M of gold, $420K tax bill, sum of $3.78M which isn’t bad for starting out at $2.1M
Obviously a gross simplification, because gold storage cost money, but real estate taxes and depreciation cost even more, commission rates and other fees vary for each investment, etc etc.
Your example = you didn’t make any money so you didn’t owe any taxes.
Obviously a better result than making ordinary income in one year and not making any income in the next, but since the two situations are actually different, it is expected that they would have different outcomes.
The figures, released to coincide with World Food Day, reveal nationally 109,294 adults and children in the UK received emergency food aid between April and September. This compares with a total of 128,697 in the whole of 2011-12.
The 13,947 people in the West Midlands turning to food banks over the past six months compares to 2,254 in the East Midlands; 9,770 in the North West; 15,015 in London and 20,988 in the South West.
Trussell Trust Executive Chairman Chris Mould said: “Day in, day out, food banks already meet UK parents who are going without food to feed their children, or are forced to consider stealing to stop their children going to bed hungry.
PHOENIX (AP) — Cash donations and food, especially proteins, are sorely needed at metro Phoenix food banks as they struggle with a severe shortage of supplies and unchecked increase in demand.
Normally, the banks’ stock of food decreases in summer and early fall, but that decrease has been exacerbated by Congress’ postponement of a vote on the Farm Bill and a recent peanut-butter recall, which forced food banks to discard that crucial source of protein.
TORONTO, Oct. 15, 2012 /CNW/ - On World Food Day, October 16, 2012, Food Banks Canada is asking Canadians to take action in support of people who are hungry
World Food Day occurs annually on October 16 to mark the date of the founding of the Conference of the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations. Organizations, agencies, businesses and individuals are marking World Food Day across the globe. The goal of the day is to strengthen awareness around the issue of food security and the struggle against hunger and poverty globally. Sadly, even Canada is not immune to this problem.
Taipei, Oct. 1 (CNA) Taiwan officially became part of the Global FoodBanking Network Monday, a move that is expected to improve the country’s food banks and help it gain access to more international resources to assist the disadvantaged and needy.
At the induction ceremony in Taipei, the Taiwan People’s Food Bank Association became the 24th member of the Chicago-based non-profit global organization, linking Taiwan with a network of food banks worldwide, said David Liu, chairman of the association.
Homebuilder index came out today (barometer on how builders are feeling).
Overall, the number increased from 40 to 41 (with 50 being the delineating factor between builders feeling good and bad), but most meaningful, IMHO is looking at the regional data.
NE, up from 31 to 34
Midwest, down from 45 to 41
South, up from 39 to 42
West, up from 44 to 49
It is worth noting that on the way down, this index was a leading indicator of the coming crash. By August 2006, the Western Index fell below 50, and was at 32 at year-end 2006, 18 at the end of 2007, 7 at the end of 2008.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:45:20
So are you saying real estate is pretty much always going up from here, despite the highly-artificial means policymakers used to override fundamentals in order to fluff the homebuilding industry back from impotence?
If you think that the homebuilder confidence is going up solely because of Fed policies, then you should be very cautious, since the Fed can dial it back at any moment.
If you think that homebuilder confidence is going up for other reasons, then you might conclude something else.
‘the number increased from 40 to 41 (with 50 being the delineating factor between builders feeling good and bad)
It’s been below 50 since 2005. If you think that home builders are confident you are mistaken.
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Comment by Rental Watch
2012-10-17 00:07:50
The national number fell below 50 in mid-2006 (ie. a leading indicator to the crash–as I noted). As this number was on the decline starting in mid-2005 (when the number was in the 70s), even when still above 50, the direction of the indicator was a big warning flag…even though home prices hadn’t started the most significant part of their fall.
The variability by region is significant–which was my main point. The NE Region is still in the low 30s, with no clear direction (was 23 in August).
The Western Region was below 20 in all of 2009, 2010, and all but one month in 2011. In January 2012, the number was 21 in the West, the lowest of all 4 regions. Now the number is 49 in the Western Region, the highest of all four regions (7 higher than the next highest).
Homebuilder confidence in the West is rising, and rising faster than any other region in the country. That’s what the data shows.
Food prices have been rising steadily around the world and this summer’s drought isn’t the only reason why, according to Frederick Kaufman, author of “Bet the Farm: How Food STOPPED Being Food.”
Kaufman tells The Daily Ticker that the price of global grains — the primary dietary staple for most people on the planet — have tripled since 2002 after decades of stability. “Something new has come to this market and we’re seeing absolute levels of volatility that we’ve never seen before,” Kaufman says.
That new development, he notes, is the exponential growth of commodity derivatives. U.S. derivatives trading in wheat alone has surged from $10 billion to $300 billion in less than a year, says Kaufman. “Speculators are completely overwhelming” the commodity futures market, says Kaufman, “subverting a market that has worked so well for over a hundred years.”
Traditionally the commodity futures market has allowed food producers and manufacturers to hedge price risk in a market that also includes speculators. There have been position limits on this type of speculation since 1936 but since 1999, those limits have been lifted for some big banks as Wall Street looked for more ways to make money. That paved the way for the increased speculation in the market today.
Kaufman says more speculation exacerbates food prices. Higher food prices have led to a global food crisis and civil unrest in the Mideast and North Africa.
Related: Food is the New Oil and Land the New Gold: Lester Brown
According to the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organization, which is holding a week-long meeting in Rome on world food security, 870 million people around the world—or one in eight—are starving or undernourished.
“While the chance of food prices returning to levels seen in 2008 and 2011 in the coming months may be slim, they remain at historically high levels, and the underlying factors driving them are here to stay,” the organization says in a press release.
The UN FAO cites population growth and a growing middle class in the developing world as factors boosting demand for grain-intensive protein and rising energy costs. “High food prices, therefore, are here to stay,” it says.
Kaufman says the U.S. should be concerned about this global situation. Higher food prices can cause civil unrest and become a national security concern for this country, which itself has 17 million households that are at risk of going hungry.
Kaufman tells The Daily Ticker that the price of global grains — the primary dietary staple for most people on the planet — have tripled since 2002 after decades of stability. “Something new has come to this market and we’re seeing absolute levels of volatility that we’ve never seen before,” Kaufman says.
This is the kind of crap that foments revolutions.
Somebody help me out here: If speculators are driving up the grain prices then what is to prevent the world’s farmers from planting every square inch of land they have access to and selling their yield to the speculators and raking in bundles of money?
It seems to me the higher the grain price the greater the incentive for farmers to produce grain. Taken to the extreme a point should eventually be reached whereby the world would run out of places to store the stuff.
People aren’t selling their homes to “step up” into new ones because they cannot come up with the down payment. Banks are keeping other homes in their inventory off the market to structure supply. So prices, which are artificially derived at this point, does not necessarily account for sales. In fact, as we move out of summer, we are likely to see a sales drop. Sales in California fell 16% month-over-month in September, and it was even a 2.7% drop year-over-year.
If you look at the market as a whole without being seduced by the rhetoric, you’ll see this a bit more clearly.
I posted on this yesterday, here is a quote from the Housingwire article that he links as his source:
“It is normal for there to be a drop in home sales between August and September, however the dip last month was more significant. This is primarily due to the month starting and ending with a weekend and with fewer business days than normal.”
There were 22 business days in September last year, 20 this year.
Given that, tell me, is a 2.7% drop statistically significant? Doesn’t he have anything better to support his view?
Battery maker A123 files for bankruptcy protection
By TOM KRISHER
The Associated Press
DETROIT —
After years of struggling with weak sales and mounting losses, electric-car battery maker A123 Systems filed for bankruptcy protection and reached a deal to sell its automotive assets Tuesday.
Auto parts maker Johnson Controls will pay $125 million for A123’s auto business, which includes two Michigan factories and the lithium-ion battery technology used in cars like the Fisker Karma and upcoming Chevrolet Spark.
A123’s demise as an independent business reflects the problems of the electric-car industry. Americans have been slow to buy the vehicles because they’re expensive, and many models have limited range and can run out of power on longer trips. Lackluster sales of EVs and batteries left A123 Systems Inc. with huge losses and a plunging market value.
The company’s stock price, which traded for more than $20 on the day of its initial public offering in 2009, fell to 6 cents in late-day trading Tuesday.
The bankruptcy filing also spawned more Republican criticism of the Obama administration, which used stimulus money to support alternative energy businesses including A123 Inc., electric-car companies, and solar-panel maker Solyndra LLC.
The company warned that it might not be able to stay in business unless it got more financing, and just two months ago, it announced a $450 million lifeline from Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group Corp. But A123 said Tuesday that the deal has been scrapped.
Republicans argue that grants and loans to alternative energy companies like A123 were a waste of stimulus money. They point out that Solyndra, a politically connected and now-bankrupt company, left taxpayers on the hook for $528 million after it failed to repay a government loan.
Democrats counter by saying the losses were expected when Congress created the high-risk program, which is intended to boost cutting-edge projects that would have trouble getting private financing. They say the “vast majority” of companies that received loans are still expected to pay them back in full, with interest.
Andrea Saul, spokeswoman for Republican Mitt Romney’s campaign, said in an e-mail that the bankruptcy is “yet another failure for the President’s disastrous strategy of gambling away billions of taxpayer dollars on a strategy of government-led growth that simply does not work.”
1. The US should cede the entire sector to China.
2. That the US should continue to fund middle east countries with our petrodollars.
3. That the US should spend countless dollars defending oil interests.
Then just do the fiscally responsible thing. Oh that`s right you pay rent. Funny how doing the fiscally responsible thing doesn`t work out as well for people who pay rent as it does for people who don`t pay the mortgage on the houses they live in for free that are under water isn`t it.
What did you do this month?
Well I paid my rent and all of my bills.
That was the fiscally responsible thing to do.
And what did you do this month?
Well I didn`t pay my mortgage just like I haven`t for the last three years because my house is only worth half of what I paid for it.
Well that was the fiscally responsible thing to do.
Stop it. Life goes on, your kids love you, trees are green and the earth smells amazing after a rain.
The strictures of mankind are nothing so much as silly diversions for those lacking in imagination. Laff at them. Go into the bathroom and take a long hot shower with your wife. Better yet, know that three days from now, circumstances will be changed and the orange juice will still be sweet.
Don’t get me started. At least in CA you probably aren’t getting the ads that we are. VA is a swing state. And, it is Washington. I can’t even listen to Morning Edition anymore. OK, some of that is because it is pledge week, but a lot is the reporting on the election.
In a past life, I was one of those evil pledge drive people.
Yes, it’s true. I was one of those pitchers. That’s what it’s called in the radio biz. You pitch for donations. And you pitch and pitch and pitch.
If, for some reason, the phones just aren’t ringin’ when you’re pitchin, the general manager comes into the studio bitchin’, and you’re tossed off the air. That’s what happened to me. It’s the reason why I’m no longer on the radio.
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Comment by Combotechie
2012-10-16 16:44:04
Were there any fake rings (shill rings)?
Did anyone make the phones ring just to make it look as there was a lot of action?
Televised auctions have been known to do this. Not only do they fake the calls they sometimes fake the bids.
Did anyone make the phones ring just to make it look as there was a lot of action?
Televised auctions have been known to do this. Not only do they fake the calls they sometimes fake the bids.
Nope, none of the above. And it had been a quiet afternoon of fundraising before I appeared on the scene.
Comment by jane
2012-10-17 02:23:47
Slim, My condolences. Being tossed out so ignominiously. You are right to be pissed off. It sucks to be the bagman. It had nothing to do with you.
By any chance, did the GM say anything like “It’s not you, it’s me?” (snark).
OK, you got a lot out of it - dj school and all. It really will help you in your biz, I think. Cold calling will come a lot easier, although admittedly it’s not as glam as being on the air. You got some name recognition - this could have been at the root of it? Somebody evilly whispering that you were using the station to further your own ends? Oh well. It’s another chapter - use it to your advantage. Use it in your advertising - “formerly dj at XXXX!!!”. There’s a nice artsy synergy there, for certain audiences. Hey, if you’ve already got the name, you might as well play the game.
Sorry to hear it happened. But, to cite one of the brazen pr*cks with whom I have had professional acquaintance: if you have worked on something, and it goes TU, you reframe it into a victory, take full credit, and loudly say “NEXT”! as you move on and never look back.
We get nothing in CA but stories of fundraisers…Republicans here who want to make a difference, but realize their vote doesn’t really matter, open their checkbooks.
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Comment by cactus
2012-10-16 18:10:15
in CA we vote on propositions to raise taxes , restrict union dues or how they are collected, repeal 3 strikes or the last strike if its minor, stiffen penalties for sex trade slavery or something like that, and a bunch more stuff etc.
Here you go folks. If you didn’t believe that the entire housing issue isn’t muddied and obfuscated by realtard scum here on this blog and in the media…. here is more evidence of propagandized lies.
County mortgages surge amidst low rates and shrinking home supply
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By Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Palm Beach County recorded a 65 percent increase in mortgages last month compared to the same time in 2011, a likely result of rock bottom interest rates and a scramble for remaining steals.
There were 4,017 mortgages recorded in September, according to a county clerk of courts report released Tuesday, which also noted a slowdown in new foreclosure filings last month.
Skip McDonough, of Family Mortgage in Jupiter, said mortgage volume has been on the rise the last four months with dwindling housing inventory and interest rates still well below 4 percent.
Last week, Freddie Mac reported the average 30-year fixed mortgage interest rate rose from 3.36 percent to 3.39 percent. A year earlier, the 30-year fixed rate was 4.12 percent.
“We’ve had the lowest rates in the history of residential lending so people who even refinanced two years ago could justify refinancing again,” he said. “Bargains are also disappearing like crazy and people are motivated to make a move sooner.”
Palm Beach County’s overall inventory of single-family homes was down to less than a five-month supply in August. That’s 57 percent below where it was in August 2011, according to the Realtors Association of the Palm Beaches.
McDonough said banks have not loosened standards for lending money, meaning top credit scores, documented income and money down are still a necessity.
“Those guidelines have not softened at all,” he said.
While the clerk’s report found a 24 percent decrease in September foreclosures from August and a 5 percent drop from last year, total filings for 2012 are still expected to exceed 2011, said Clerk Sharon Bock.
There were 11,639 new foreclosure cases filed through September of this year compared to a total of 12,154 in all of 2011.
Why in the sam-effing-hill did Romney bring up the 47% thing at the very, very end? What the…?
What the… ?
I guess he got rattled… ?
Just answer the question without referencing the 47% thing. Or did he know that Obama would hit him with that? How bizarre. He just needed to talk about how touchy-feely he is and make puppy dog eyes. Wow. Incomprehensible.
IMO Romney’s performances tonight, and in the past, are a bit bizarre. Obama is a total political tool, but to me, Obama is not bizarre. I understand Obama’s actions in light of BS politics. But there is something about Romney (not including my dislike of his politics) that unnerves me.
Heck, I liked W. way better. I almost voted for him the first time. But Romney is not cool under pressure, and he is totally unraveled when someone confronts his lies.
This, IMO, is not the mark of the leader of the free world.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 20:55:10
“47%”
Maybe it was one of those compulsive acts people some times commit, only to later deeply regret them, like in the scene from A Christmas Story when the kid’s tongue gets stuck to the pole. “I triple-dog dare ya!“
Look to the eyebags. Last week Obama looked like death warmed over. This debate had Gov. Romney in need of a B-12 series. Kudos to Candy Crowley for keeping it on point.
In a smaller town-hall style debate at Hofstra University in New York, the presidential candidates took the stage sometimes circling each other like prize fighters.
By John Whitesides and Samuel P. Jacobs, Reuters / October 16, 2012
…
Given the Mormon “Joy Books”, (photo albums of nubile underaged girls listed by their fathers as available for “binding”), MItt’s “Binders Full of Women” comment takes on a whole new — and hugely creepy — connotation.
Comment by Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower™
2012-10-16 22:52:49
The Republican spin doctors are going to deluge the HBB with rationalizations bright and early tomorrow about what they wish would have happened in the second debate, but didn’t?
And you can bet the Republican talk show hosts will be licking their wounds, while openly accusing Obama of bullying Romney.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Barack Obama won the debate and got his campaign back on track.
The presidential election is far from over, but the president accomplished his major goals during Tuesday’s town-hall-style debate with Republican candidate Mitt Romney.
After his dominating performance Tuesday, no one is talking about the sleepwalking president anymore. If anything, they’re calling him a bully for the way he slapped Romney around.
…
Hedge Fund Consultant Michael Belkin spoke at The Big Picture conference, predicting a 40% stock market drop in the coming 12-15 months. Belkin joins Sam Mamudi to discuss his case for a market drop.
Name:Ben Jones Location:Northern Arizona, United States To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
PayPal is a secure online payment method which accepts ALL major credit cards.
“Rio, Fortescue drive iron ore output despite China risks.”
Q. And they are doing this because?
A. It’s what they do, it’s all they’ve got.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/rio-fortescue-drive-iron-ore-093946270.html
…and the woman who drives it isn’t going to pay attention to reason and rationality.
Google her. Get a chin bumper. Gina Rinehart,
chortle
Australian mining magnate Gina Rinehart has criticised her country’s economic performance and said Africans willing to work for $2 a day should be an inspiration.
Ms Rinehart is reported to be the world’s richest woman and her views have been dismissed by Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19487985
Cash definitely rules in a land desperate for the stuff…
“Greece prepares second wave of privatizations”
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greece-prepares-second-wave-privatizations-091523554
Cash rules with inflation of .6% in one month? BTW, for those who say rent prices are falling, you cannot see it by the BLS data. Housing costs up another .2% this month. Finally, Obama care has not bent the price curb, we are up .4% in the medical department.
Rental rates are falling…. As are housing prices.
The largest year-over-year percent declines in rental prices were observed in:
Denver (-8.8%)
Chicago (-4.8%)
Los Angeles (-2.6%)
http://newsroom.transunion.com/MediaLibraries/TransUnion/Documents/graphics/1Q12/Q1-2012_SolutionsReport.pdf
Your link says the average rent for the US increased 4.4% from the first quarter of 2011 to the first quarter of 2012.
Rents are indeed going up, on average.
He likes to ignore that little point every time he posts the same chart…
You like to ignore the fact that rental rates are falling in the majority of cities.
Huh Rental Pimp?
I don’t know why you guys are arguing about this. House prices have paused in their avalanche or even risen slightly this year. 2012 also saw massive attrition in the HBB doomers. Quarter to quarter stuff isn’t helpful in getting the big picture. 2% is noise. The really interesting question IMO is will the next massive wave down will hit after this little breather.
If rental rates are falling in the “majority of cities”, how in the world is the national average up 4.4%?
Oh, because the sample size is 10.
Transunion picked 10 cities, of which 6 had year on year decreases, and you tout that as “rental rates are falling in the majority of cities”.
10 is a statistically insignificant sample size.
Presumably the 4.4% increase is on a more significant sample.
Blue Skye–
To answer your question about leg down…I posted a link below to a new law under consideration in NJ, that would allow expedited foreclosures in NJ of vacant and abandoned homes.
This is a huge deal, and would dramatically increase the flow of homes onto the market in NJ. If it happens, I think there will be another leg down in prices in NJ.
If it begins to successfully clear out inventory, I suspect we may see similar laws passed in other states…there are no sob stories of families losing their homes if the homes are already abandoned.
I applaud the politicians in NJ (if they pass the law). While not as good as changing to non-judicial across the board in NJ, this is a move that very likely will negatively impact the home values of their constituents, and is a courageous piece of legislation.
the steely dan man’s new release:
SUNKEN CONDOS
http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/review/donald-fagen-sunken-condos/2893
“10 is a statistically insignificant sample size.”
Rental Pimp…. what 15 MILLION people are paying for shelter isn’t insignificant.
You put more bull$hit out here than 10 realtors combined.
It’s less significant than over 100 million households.
For the record, that 15 million is LESS THAN 5% of the population.
“10 is a statistically insignificant sample size.”
Isn’t every one of those ten data points representative of an underlying ’sample size’ that numbers in the thousands or millions?
I admit the idea of making a meaningful interpretation of those ten data points is problematic, but this is for reasons other than the number of underlying population members implicitly reflected in those values…
CIBT-
On the very same graph, the same collector of data comes up with their national number, from 130,000 screened applications.
That national number shows an increase of 4.4%.
That’s the point. The smaller set shows 4 up, 6 down out of 10 markets. The larger set shows an average of 4.4% up.
And RAL would like to use the smaller set for his conclusion…isn’t the larger set more reasonable to use?
Three cities is not the nation. My figures are the national figures.
WRONG again.
Rental rates are falling in the majority of cities surveyed.
DC DOWN
Chicago DOWN
Houston DOWN
Vegas DOWN
Denver DOWN
LA DOWN
Phoenix FLAT
Atlanta UP
Nice try though.
With rental vacancy rates at multi-decade record highs, rental rates will continue falling.
Among the largest 25 rental markets, rents rose the most in Houston and Seattle, where they climbed more than 10% year over year in August. Rents are no longer rising so quickly in Denver, San Francisco, Miami, Oakland and Boston, but that may not be much comfort: these hot rental markets are still seeing annual rent increases of 8% or more.
http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/files/2012/09/sf-5th-highest5.jpg
You can post all the pictures you want.
The reality is that rental rates measured in price per square foot are falling irrespective of location.
yeah….
Except where they are not..
Sincerely
Gimp Specuvestor
SF…Getting any sweet fall surf?
Oregon has had a couple memorable days to be sure.
F…Getting any sweet fall surf?
Mike,
I missed you when you were down here. Next time….
Last weekend the surf was awesome. I have tomorrow off so hoping for some swell. Can’t wait to finish unpacking, this moving has put a damper on my recreation. The house we bought is in live-in condition, and the work it needs can wait until I feel like it, but I can;t stand being surrounded by boxes.
“Except where they are not..”
The reality is rental rates in price per square foot is sinking. Yes… in Oregon too.
LOL!
For what it’s worth; I have been collecting the same rent from my tenant for 2.5 years; I could easily raise it 10% up to $900; granted this is Prinevlle, pop. 9,000. 30 miles east. I have been paying the same rent for over a year, $950, in Bend, and the landlord has not asked for more after over a year. So pretty stable, however, When looking to rent, I remember it distictly to be a landlords market, within reason, most owners choosing management companies and prices surging mildly. at least north of $1000 for a 3/2, so it was hard to have the patience to find the right place, rented by owner, which we finally find thru word of mouth.
SF: I have found myself subbing exclusively at my kids’ school; also my wife is the lunch lady/volleyball coach; we are there all day everyday; its pretty cool when your own kids(6th and 8th gr.) are in your class.
BTW I saw some wave pics from SFOB over the weekend. WOW! I was lucky enough to catch some of it here in OR; camping at the coast; and it was also “totally tubular”; just me and a bro; our own a-frame peak; zoo circus only 1/2 mile away. Schweet!
Got to surf with an old friend last summer in Cambria(and w/my kids); never made it to S.F. to stay with sis. Thus no Linda Mar nor OB. Hopefully next time tho; thanks for the offer to show me your local….
http://www.zillow.com/local-info/#metric=mt%3D51%26dt%3D1%26tp%3D5%26rt%3D14%26r%3D102001%252C394913%252C394806%252C394463%26el%3D0
Zillow rent estimate per square foot.
http://www.zillow.com/local-info/#metric=mt%3D50%26dt%3D1%26tp%3D5%26rt%3D14%26r%3D102001%252C394913%252C394806%252C394463%26el%3D0
Zillow rent index.
“SF…Getting any sweet fall surf?”
Y’all should’ve seen the waves in La Jolla today. The waves and the weather were awesome…
‘He Lies!’ They Commanded (Or are the fact checkers on the web reliable to determine who is telling the truth)
Obama has run many ads saying, as well, that Romney would raise taxes on the middle class. Romney denies he would do any such thing. Obama’s argument is that “a think tank” said that his numbers can’t add up — that it’s impossible to find enough tax breaks for the rich to offset the tax-rate reductions Romney favors — and that if Romney wanted to cut those tax rates without raising the deficit, he might have to raise middle-class taxes. The think tank said Obama was distorting its report by saying that Romney would definitely raise middle-class taxes.
PolitiFact, one of the fact-checking groups, amazingly rated Obama’s claim “mostly true.” FactCheck.org said it was “not true.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/329964/he-lies-they-commanded-ramesh-ponnuru?pg=2
So, which lie is true, which lie is false, or which is partially true is open to discussion. You can’t always rely on your fact checker and you’ll still have to consider all of the facts in a matter “if you want to know the real truth”.
You also can’t predict what will be drawn next on the etch-a-sketch after it gets erased.
I can predict.
Romney wins the election in a landslide (52-47% of the popular vote). Through his leadership, America emerges once again as a dominant force in energy exploration, green energy efficiencies (which are needed to make it viable) and job growth.
He will do this through his Five Point Plan
(1) Aggressively promote domestic energy development, especially fossil fuels.
(2) Expand the market for U.S. goods overseas by negotiating new trade agreements and standing up to China on intellectual-property and currency issues.
3) Improve workforce skills by transferring job-training programs to the states and going after teachers’ unions, which, he says, stand in the way of school choice and better instruction.
4) Attack the deficit through budget cuts, not tax increases.
5) Reshape the regulatory climate to “encourage and promote small business” rather than swamp it.
So we shall see how good I am at predicting these things. What do you think is going to happen?
I claim absolutely no ability to predict election outcomes.
But I do know how to read graphs. The post-VP debate tick in the IEM WTA market prices went in Obama’s direction, though the trend between the two debates definitely favored Romney. And despite the body blow of the first debate, Obama appears to still hold comfortable leads in both the implied vote share and winner-takes-all market predictions.
I know the electoral college outcome is completely independent of what these prediction markets indicate (blah, blah, blah)…
2012 US Presidential Election Vote Share Market
2012 US Presidential Election Winner Takes All Market
But maybe with enough misleading propaganda, the sheeple can be led to believe a Romney win is “in the bag,” and can thusly led to vote for Romney. Because sheeple love to play “follow the leader.”
I would not predict the outcome either with two debates and three weeks left and the numbers being close. However, Rasmussen will get it right. Today here are the numbers:
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 49% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 47%. Two percent (2%) prefer some other candidate, and another two percent (2%) are undecided. See daily tracking history.
Thus, if the election were held today Romney would win. The swing states are swing states because they tend to vote like the rest of the nation. With a two point win even before you allocate the undecided which break for the challenger, Romney would win most all of them.
Ladbroke’s casino odds:
Obama 4 - 9 (bet $9 to win 4)
Romney 7 - 4 (bet 4 to win 7)
FiveThirtyEight, which uses a state-by-state electoral model, has a 66% chance of Obama winning, 34% chance for RMoney.
“Rasmussen will get it right.”
Do they have a superior track record for predicting election outcomes compared to other polls?
Or are you just blowing more BS on the HBB?
“…while President Obama earns the vote from 47%.”
Is that the 47% of loosers that Romney dismissed?
I wonder why the IEM prices disagree with Rasmussen, even though Rasmussen is “right”?
I’d always heard that money talks and BS walks, but maybe it’s different this time…
Yes Rasumussen election cycle after election cycle has been the best predictor and other posters have given you his record. Perhaps you do not read what other people post. The 2008 cycle he was off by 1/2%.
Do they have a superior track record for predicting election outcomes compared to other polls?
Rasmussen, Pew and Mason Dixon have better track records than others. The divergence between IEM/intrade/casino and public polls are certainly new phenomenon this year. I will try to catch up with a friend who’s in the polling business and report what he has to say.
How does the president go after unions?
“Perhaps you do not read what other people post.”
I read more what other people who supply references post than what those who don’t supply them post.
What do you think is going to happen?
At the end of R/R’s first term, no net decrease in the number of Lucky Duckies receiving food stamps, disability, earned income tax credits, Obama phones, et cetera. Median household wages continue to decline. Wealth inequality continues to increase.
All of the above will also happen under O’s second term.
“Obama phones”
Are these the same as iPhones?
Almost - you still have to pay for an iphone
“At the end of R/R’s first term, no net decrease in the number of Lucky Duckies
receivingneeding food stamps, disability, earned income tax credits, Obama phones, et cetera. Median household wages continue to decline. Wealth inequality continues to increase.All of the above will also happen under O’s second term.
“
Fixed it for you.
If Romney is elected, what he is able to accomplish will be limited by the balance in the Senate. If the Democrats retain control there, his impact will be limited. If the Democrats lose control, his impact will be greater.
The biggest impact will be on the Supreme Court where he will get to appoint 1 or 2 new justices. Then we will get more great decisions like Citizens United. And the unborn will be protected at the expense of the already born.
Happy2bHeard,
You are exactly right in that respect, regarding the status of the Senate.
But I disagree that the number of people needing food stamps will not decrease.
Why? I think the program to gain Energy Independence is going to generate a lot of jobs, a bunch. Just look at North Dakota, SE NM/West TX, Pennsylvania and Ohio.
We shall see how it all shakes out. Forgive me if I hope that we can change the direction of this great country. IMO if we get the government out of the way, the wheels of the economy will start running again.
“if we get the government out of the way, the wheels of the economy will start running again.” 1995, Mohamed Farrah Aidid, President of Somalia
“Forgive me if I hope that we can change the direction of this great country.”
Hope and change…where have I heard that before?
So can I.
1) Romney will continue the Republican “Thirty Year’s War” against the Middle Class.
2) We’ll be involved in ANOTHER NeoCon inspired Charlie-Foxtrot/boots-on-the-ground/fight-them-there-rather-than-here , Nation building project in the Middle East.
3) The “Energy Independence” joke will be on the US people, as most of the increased oil production will be exported, and ethanol will still be crammed down our throats. Oil bidness Texans and North Dakotans will be happy, everyone else will start figuring out how much they need to put aside for environmental cleanup.
4) Public sKools in low income/taxbase areas will finish their final swirls around the toilet, when pensions are cut, and pay is reduced to the new National Standard of $12/hour. Teachers will do the cost/benefit analysis, and say “screw it”.
5) Several Republicans representatives will start going full Sharia, passing the “Make the sluts wear something Appropriate Act”, mandating that women wear “non-stimulating” apparal.
6) Illustrations of Christmas will be revised to reflect current Republican beliefs, showing the tree wise men riding to Bethlehem on Stegosaurs.
7) “Free Market” solutions to the Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid problems will be passed. Labor Camps will be built by hospitals, where many people will be forced to take up permanent residence, to pay their bills after an uninsured overnight hospital visit.
Republicans will be mystified that consumer spending continues to fall, unless it can be bought on credit.
Screw what Republicans say. We have 30 years of evidence of what they will actually do……screw the little people, and continue the wealth transfer to the top 5% class.
Get back with me in 2016, and we’ll see who is closer to being right.. Assuming the internet hasn’t been “privatized” by then.
Righteous screed, Gulfie.
Don’t be silly, fixer. The dinos died out when they missed the last boat before the Flood. They didn’t even make it to Abraham, never mind the time frame of the sequel.
X-GS, don’t know what you’ve been smoking, but I sure would like to try some. Ditto ahansen. Polly, et tu?
FYI, The United Nations is considering a new Internet tax targeting the largest Web content providers, including Google, Facebook, Apple, and Netflix, that could cripple their ability to reach users in developing nations.
The European proposal, offered for debate at a December meeting of a U.N. agency called the International Telecommunication Union, would amend an existing telecommunications treaty by imposing heavy costs on popular Web sites and their network providers for the privilege of serving non-U.S. users, according to newly leaked documents.
http://amresolution.com/2012/06/12/united-nations-to-take-up-global-internet-tax-proposal/
Proposing is one thing. Collecting is another.
Ask the Euros how their attempt to impose “carbon trading” on US flights bound for Europe is doing.
I just can’t wrap my head around the US being led by a cult leader. This is not a just a run of the mill religious politician, he’s a new hybrid of some of the most extreme elements of disaster capitalism with a core belief system based on Mormonism. This would have made a great movie plot but it’s a terrifying future.
You mean our future would be - Utah?
Could be worse. He could be intimately connected to Wall Street…
You may be right. After all, the Senate has been run by another leader from the same cult for some time now, and you can see where that’s got us.
War with Iran will generate thousands of new jobs at cemeteries around the country.
Not to worry, Bluestar. With $2B on the table, the ad agencies have to keep this narrative on the edge.
It’s not.
(2) Expand the market for U.S. goods overseas by negotiating new trade agreements and standing up to China on intellectual-property and currency issues.
3) Improve workforce skills by transferring job-training programs to the states and going after teachers’ unions, which, he says, stand in the way of school choice and better instruction.
2 and 3 will fail. 1, 4 and 5 may work but don’t hold your breath on 4 I’ve heard this line before
“4) Attack the deficit through budget cuts, not tax increases.”
Don’t leave out economic growth in your assessment, growth will bring increased revenues into the treasury without tax increases. The best you will ever get out of Washington will be a reduction in the rate of growth of spending, you will never get real cuts, the budget will never be less the following year. Growth plus spending discipline IS the answer.
Don’t leave out economic growth in your assessment, growth will bring increased revenues into the treasury without tax increases.
Growth is good but growth does not give the bang-for-the-buck that it used to give treasury revenue. Why? Because nowadays, those who mostly benefit from economic growth are the super-rich and the super-rich’s taxes are at an 80 year low.
In the past, the middle-class benefited equally with the rich from growth and productivity. We no longer do.
Again, nowadays, the rich are reaping the majority of economic growth’s rewards. When the super-rich like Romney pay 13% Federal taxes, the growth that used to boost tax receipts now mostly ends up in Swiss Bank accounts. This is the major flaw in the obsolete “growth increasing tax revenue” model.
“Again, nowadays, the rich are reaping the majority of economic growth’s rewards.”
Yes, thanks to wall street bailouts, car company bailouts, crony socialist projects like Solyndra and A123 systems. In fact, it appears the communists have cornered the market on making the rich even richer.
Obama’s campaign donors are among some of the most wealthy people on earth, sounds like the elite plan on doing very well in the future (if Obama is re-elected), while the proletariat continue to suffer.
On a final note: Only a real live communist could attempt to make an argument against economic growth. I will even go as far as saying you are unqualified to comment on the American economy, primarily because of your opposition to our Constitutional system of government.
Expand the market for U.S. goods overseas by negotiating new trade agreements and standing up to China on intellectual-property and currency issues.
You do realize how R made his money right?? He did it by outsourcing labor from the US to China and by telling others how to do this as well.
That ANYONE would lend ANY credibility to a man who sent American jobs to Communist China, is beyond the pale.
They gettin’ paid well to pretend…
Why, you lend credibility to a man that didn’t do a thing before he got elected to the toughest job in the universe?
Can’t you leave Bush alone? He’s been gone for over 3 years!
*snerk*
Liberals’ green-energy contradictions
Washington Post | October 15, 2012 | Charles Lane
Al Gore is about 50 times richer than he was when he left the vice presidency in 2001. According to an Oct. 11 report by The Post’s Carol D. Leonnig, Gore accumulated a Romneyesque $100 million partly through investing in alternative-energy firms subsidized by the Obama administration.
Two days after that story ran, Mitt Romney proclaimed at a rally in Ohio’s Appalachian coal country: “We have a lot of coal; we are going to use it. We are going to keep those jobs.” Thousands cheered.
The juxtaposition speaks volumes about the Democratic Party, and about modern liberalism generally. As the Democrats become more committed to, and defined by, a green agenda, and as they become dependent on money from high-tech venture capitalists and their lobbyists, it becomes harder to describe them as a party for the little guy — or liberalism as a philosophy of distributive justice.
But that’s not the worst contradiction in the Democrats’ doing-well-by-being-green ethos. Green energy is not cost-competitive with traditional energy and won’t be for years. So it can’t work without either taxpayer subsidies, much of which accrue to “entrepreneurs” such as Gore, or higher prices for fossil energy — the brunt of which is borne by people of modest means.
Consider California’s “net metering” subsidy for solar-panel users. As the New York Times reported in June, the program hugely benefits well-off consumers who can afford to install photovoltaic panels. They get sun power for their homes — plus an excess supply that utilities must buy. Thus utilities must also pay to keep them on the grid. Those costs get passed along to everyone else — including low-income customers.
It’s one thing to lose your job because a competing firm built a superior mouse trap; it’s quite another, justice-wise, to lose it because a competitor talked the government into taking its side.
WSJ - The Solyndra Memorial Tax Break:
“Perhaps you thought the Solyndra scandal amounted to a $535 million government loan that will never be repaid. No such luck. Solyndra’s investors could be rewarded for their failure, thanks to a tax benefit the Administration handed out in a bid to evade political accountability.
There are between $875 million and $975 million in net operating losses that can reduce future taxable income, which the IRS values as high as $350 million.
Tax-loss carry-forwards are routine but worthless if a company can’t turn profits to pay taxes on. So Solyndra’s owners are asking the court to liquidate the rest of the business and contribute a net $6.7 million to pay off creditors for pennies on the dollar. A holding corporation will then emerge from Chapter 11 that won’t make products or employ workers, but it will get the Solyndra tax offsets.”
From Bloomberg today:
A123 Systems Inc. (AONE), a maker of rechargeable lithium-ion batteries for electric cars, filed for bankruptcy after failing to make a debt payment that was due yesterday.
The company listed assets of $459.8 million and debt of $376 million as of Aug. 31 in Chapter 11 documents filed today in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware. Chapter 11 is the section of the Bankruptcy Code used by companies to reorganize.
A123 didn’t expect to be on time with an interest payment due yesterday on $143.8 million of notes expiring in 2016, or to make a payment due yesterday on $2.76 million in outstanding 6 percent notes, the Waltham, Massachusetts-based company said yesterday in a regulatory filing.
“The company may not have sufficient cash to fund operations and may need to seek the protections provided under the U.S. Bankruptcy Code,” A123 said.
A123, which received a $249.1 million federal grant in 2009 to build a U.S. factory, needed a financial lifeline after struggling with costs from a recall of batteries supplied to Fisker Automotive Inc., the plug-in hybrid luxury carmaker. A123 announced in August that it was working on a deal with Wanxiang Group Corp., China’s largest auto-parts maker, for financing in exchange for a majority ownership stake.
Crickets…
Getting NOLs out of a bk is fairly routine.
Going into bankruptcy is very routine if you are an Obama backed green company.
Minuscule compared to bankrupting the country like your previous President did…
Let us know when it comes close to the Wall St bailout.
Nice change of subject there, scdave!
How did we get on the subject of green energy to begin with? Oh yeah — the paid prostitutes brought it up…
I never voted for him and I think you ignore Carter’s and Barney’s roles in pushing banks to lend to minorities without having the credit scores or the down payments. B. Frank was blocking any reform right up to the day everything collapsed. BTW, Obama’s administration is pushing for that again.
No the housing bubble was caused by both political parties which used it to cover the real decline in income caused by both parties’ globalist policies.
“No the housing bubble was caused by both political parties which used it to cover the real decline in income caused by both parties’ globalist policies.”
Who are you and what have you done with the real A-Dan? This the most intelligent thing I have ever seen you post. And utterly correct.
Just one caveat: they did it for Wall St., of which they are all heavily invested in.
you ignore Carter’s and Barney’s roles in pushing banks to lend to minorities without having the credit scores ??
It starts at the top my friend…….
Flashback: In 2004 Bush Campaigned For Re-Election On The …
thinkprogress.org/politics/2008/09/19/…/bush-ownership-society/Sep 19, 2008 – During the 2004 campaign, President Bush declared his pride in making America what he called “an ownership society.” He promoted …
Yes it does. Keep going…
“No loan is exempt, no bank is immune. For those who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement (of the Community Reinvestment Act).” — Attorney General Janet “Burn them All” Reno
Yeah, the Repubs just can’t let go of the CRA ACT excuse.
CRA act or not, NOBODY made those loans, until the banksters figured out they could offload them onto someone else, and walk away with cash.
What was the total value of CRA loans? Something like 4-5% of the total mortgages outstanding? Somebody must have built a giant pyramid of leveraged crap, even if EVERY ONE of the CRA loans defaulted.
The fact that the banksters were able to dodge/eliminate practically every other regulation, but couldn’t dodge the CRA, doesn’t pass the common sense test.
As has been well-documented here on this forum, CRA loans have a significantly higher repayment rate than private lender loans. But then you knew that.
And to Polly
this is what I was trying to say yesterday…with NO corporate income taxes schemes like this cant exist.
——–but it will get the Solyndra tax offsets.
Getting rid of corporate taxes will cause people to use the corporate structure to avoid individual taxes (even more than they already do) which will result in even greater concentrations of wealth in the group of people who already have it.
If you can’t address the obvious problem, don’t advocate the policy that causes it.
“Getting rid of corporate taxes will cause people to use the corporate structure to avoid individual taxes (even more than they already do)”
Many if not all high tech companies re-route product through Sinapore to avoid high US taxes
Have to hire engineers in Sinapore to qualify that’s part of the dealeo
If you eliminate corporate taxes (to get rid of the problem of corporate tax breaks), then no one will have to route anything through anywhere to avoid paying taxes on it. They will just have to leave the money in the company. Anyone with a C-corporation woud be able to avoid taxes on any earnings they didn’t take out of the company.
It is essentially permission to turn the income tax into a consumption tax. There wouldn’t be an income tax anymore - at least not for anyone who saves any money at all.
“Gore accumulated a Romneyesque $100 million partly through investing in alternative-energy firms subsidized by the Obama administration.”
Emphasis on partly. How much of that increase in wealth did he accumulate in the 8 years between leaving office and the start of the Obama administration? How much came from other stuff? Your statement would be true if he had gotten $5 from all of the “alternative-energy firms subsidized by the Obama administration” combined.
Liberals’ green-energy contradictions
The point remains: Government, with its inevitable susceptibility to lobbying and favoritism, should not be picking winners and losers, whether through green subsidies or tax breaks for oil and gas.
It’s one thing to lose your job because a competing firm built a superior mouse trap; it’s quite another, justice-wise, to lose it because a competitor talked the government into taking its side.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-lane-liberals-green-energy-contradictions/2012/10/15/8c251ba2-16e6-11e2-8792-cf5305eddf60_story.html
Did you get mixed up again? FYI this isn’t the anti-librul green energy blog…
Yeah - it is the “Blame Bush For All Problems” blog…
or
“Only Bigger Government Can Solve Our Problems” blog…
Yeah - it is the “Blame Bush For All Problems” blog… ??
Tell me again what happened in September 2008 2fruit ??
Or, like all neocon’s, did you just conveniently forget….
Banana will never answer that question, so I’ll help out.
Obama used his time machine to go back and destroy the economy so he could impose the shariacommunosocialist regime we now suffer under.
It’s the paid Republican political prostitution blog…
t’s the paid Republican political prostitution blog…
A third of this country votes Republican and and another third Democrat, give or take… 1 in 3. 33%. Not everyone here is a “paid republican troll”. Not saying they don’t exist, but your attempts to squash the other side of political arguments based purely on party affiliation is unproductive and transparent.
In fact, I take it as a small comfort that Romney is a serious threat to Obama in this election, post-debate, now that many liberals here no longer pretend to be “independent” voters.
“Not everyone here is a “paid republican troll”. Not saying they don’t exist, but your attempts to squash the other side of political arguments based purely on party affiliation is unproductive and transparent.”
Not everyone who argues for a Republican viewpoint is a troll. Those who continually present the same discredited talking points deserve to be bashed as trolls when they bring them up again.
“Those who continually present the same discredited talking points deserve to be bashed as trolls when they bring them up again.”
It’s kind of a pain to have to keep pointing these sorts out again and again, but somebody has to do it. I’m pretty sure God would not have given me such a good bullshitometer if he didn’t want me to participate in the effort.
Bloomberg - Obama’s $5 Billion Slow to Charge Electric Car Purchases:
“President Barack Obama has put $5 billion in taxpayer money behind his goal of having 1 million electric cars on U.S. roads by 2015. The Republican presidential ticket says it’s money wasted on “losers.” (loosers?)
Whether the technology itself is a loser or consumers are merely slow to adapt to new things, car buyers so far haven’t embraced electric vehicles in numbers close to Obama’s goal. Electric vehicle sales since 2011 totaled fewer than 50,000 through September, just 5 percent of the president’s target.”
Green energy is commie. That’s why Reagan ripped the solar panels off the White House.
Real Americans dig there energy out of the ground and burn it!
Yeah! And show what Real Men they are with a pair of plastic testicles hanging from the trailer hitch.
Take America Back!
Four More Years!
Restore Our Future!
Forward!
So let me do the math on that:
$5 Billion divided by 50,000 is only $1 million in government subsidies per car! (so far…)
3 more years - maybe we can get that down to only $500,000 subsidy per car.
It is sad and government logic when it would have been far cheaper to hire a limo/driver for every owner of an electric car…
$5 Billion ??
Chicken-feed….What was the total amount in 9/2008 ?? You can round it off if you like…
How much money was spent getting Neil Armstrong to the moon and what were the eventual dividends from that investment?
How much money was spent developing the world wide web and what were the eventual dividends from that investmenet?
Seems to me that had we left this to the private sector, we might still be wondering about spce travel and and certainly not reading this very message in real time.
You just made republicans’ aregument for increased militiry spending. Let’s spend trillions in war machines, we might get one or two useful thing out of it.
OK - I see. We are subsidizing the wealthy to buy $50,000-$100,000 cars for their PERSONAL use for the betterment of mankind everywhere…
Sounds like the same reason we bailed out the TBTF banks and their million dollar salary CEOs…
Technology doesn’t develop itself in a vacuum, nanerz. Nor does its infrastructure. It comes about incrementally as the product is refined and accepted.
What do you suppose the per-citizen subsidy has been to GE for its war machines, hmmm?
So let me do the math on that: $5 Billion divided by 50,000 is only $1 million in government subsidies per car! (so far…)
How can anyone make an argument like that with a straight face?
That kind of thinking illustrates an ignorance to key components of Capitalism - entry barriers and development costs of complicated products.
Or is shows something worse - the power of misleading propaganda over sheeple.
Not that it matters, but $5 Billion divided by 50,000 is $100,000, not one million.
Fast charge, long range electric/hybrid cars are going to be outselling ICE cars within 10 years.
Honda just sold its one millionth hybrid yesterday.
Tesla just received $10 million is expansion funding to start production of it’s 3rd model.
Toyota has expanded it’s Prius line to 5 models.
The Ford C-Max is coming for 2013.
Installation labor is now the biggest cost of solar home installation and even that problem has been solved.
Fast charge, long range electric/hybrid cars are going to be outselling ICE cars within 10 years.
>> They DON”T exist and will not exist in 10 years based on the progress of this technology for the last 40 years.
Honda just sold its one millionth hybrid yesterday.
>> Great! And did they do it without massive government subsidies for each car sold?
Tesla just received $10 million is expansion funding to start production of it’s 3rd model.
>> Great! Nothing like federal subsidies for a company that makes cars starting at $100,000.
Toyota has expanded it’s Prius line to 5 models.
>> Why no high fives for the obamamotors Chevy Volt????
Installation labor is now the biggest cost of solar home installation and even that problem has been solved.
>> Illegal immigrants? Solar power homes make no economic sense in 80% of the USA. And in the remaining 20% it still needs MASSIVE federal and state subsidies.
You really are an ignorant fool and a liar.
Every point you posted is wrong.
You really are an ignorant fool and a liar
Fruitboi has been on fire lately, doncha think?
Must be an election or something coming up, LOLZ!
On fire? All it would take would be one match and he’d go up just like > that <
Nice try birdboy.
Real American rugged individualist bootstrappers drive F-350’s.
Toyota Prius is for socialists and homosexuals.
Easy to make predictions but everywhere countries are cutting back the subsidies to solar due to its high cost still twice as expensive as other power. When the subsidies and are pulled the market collapses. Only in Japan is there any market due to the nuke plants being down. Tesla is on the edge of bankruptcy. One million cars is less than 1% of the cars on the road.
Solar is still twenty years away. Fuel cell cars if you count them as electric may be feasible soon but pure electric cars will not drop in price as lithium gets more expensive. Where is all this lithium suppose to come from it is scarcer than fossil fuels. No, it is a deadend technology unless you find another way to make batteries.
Wrong. Better recheck you market facts.
Solar (and wind) is booming world wide, including here.
Google “world solar market trend” Click images and look at the charts.
So were sub-prime loans.
How did that work out?
“Solar is still twenty years away.”
If we burn fossil fuels faster, it will get here sooner. The more expensive fossil fuels are, the more competitive alternatives become.
Solar and other alternatives are not yet competitive. Oil will not go away overnight. But the trends support investing now, while we still can. I fully expect that fossil fuels will be necessary to build the alternative infrastructure.
Doing nothing will leave us completely unprepared for an inevitable future of very expensive fossil fuels. Every year, more of us will be left hungry in the cold and dark with only our feet to take us where we need to go.
Agreed this article captures my view, here is excerpt:
Saving Solar Energy From the Government and the Political Class
Written on October 16, 2012 by Editor - Science News
It would be better if some of the money could be directed away from subsidies to businesses. To put it bluntly, the US government would have to give up on “crony capitalism, as exemplified by Solyndra, and go back to funding scientific research.
When government steps out of its legitimate role supporting basic scientific research, and attempts to play venture capitalist, the results are usually disastrous. It is clear that, unlike venture capitalists, politicians are not accountable to either investors or the SEC. Presidents and legislators are accountable only to the voters. If we were to judge simply by America’s current national debt, wise stewardship of taxpayers’ money is obviously not a major voter concern.
Some of the best money the US government has ever spent, however, has been invested in basic scientific research. The payoff has rarely been as direct as, for example, the payoff from the Defense Department’s investment in survivable communications, which led directly to the internet. Rather, basic science pays for itself by creating an ecosystem of experienced and highly trained people, who constantly raise the nation’s general level of knowledge and skill. Entrepreneurs and investors, not politicians, can then employ that knowledge to create new products and new industries.
Scientific research is crucial.
I think some of the push to subsidize companies with loans comes out of a desire to remain competitive with China, which does not have the same concern about picking winners and losers. If we cede the business to China, then we do not get the multiplicative effect of increased jobs in this country. Do we get the ROI from our investment in scientific research if the bulk of the jobs are created in CHina?
Would a Romney administration provide any support to our alternative energy industry? Or would they cut funding even for scientific research?
If Romney picked a green energy company, you can be sure that it would be more likely to succedd than Obama’s track record.
I would suppose that Romney will be trimming “all segments” of the government as that what it’s going to take to get us back to a balanced budget.
Once things start working out, the support would return, but I’m not certain that it can happen that fast (aka 8 years
Solyndra was put into the DOE pipeline during Bush’s 2nd. term. It was fast tracked as part of the first stimulus package. It was doomed by a collapsed silicon market. Pure silicon was around $400 a kilo back in 2006 when Solyndra was formed. Now silicon is $20 and the cost of flat panel modules has dropped by 80%. As bad as Solyndra is it pales in comparison to the A12 Navy jet program. The taxpayer ate that one too plus the contractor got paid a severance fee.
“If Romney picked a green energy company, you can be sure that it would be more likely to succedd than Obama’s track record.”
It is more likely that someone else in his administration or Congress would be picking the company than that Romney would do it himself.
The economy is already slowly improving. Whether it continues to do so may depend more on what happens in the rest of the world than what the next President does.
China’s slowing growth is impacting the rest of the Asian economies. The Euro’s problems and austerity policies are impacting growth in Europe. I don’t think we can expect a lot from Africa and Latin America. Brazil may continue to grow, but they are not a large enough economy to carry the world.
Will the US economy grow because of slowing growth in the rest of the world as capital looks for the best place to invest? Or will it shrink as consumers slow spending worldwide?
“Government, with its inevitable susceptibility to lobbying and favoritism, should not be picking winners and losers, and Brazil can never become energy independent.” 1977, Ima Dumphuc, CEO BrazilOilnCoal
are there any bank deals left?
are there any bank deals left ??
I see a lot of them but they are all fairly far away from the job centers…
Banks, lenders and servicers are sitting on an inventory of 20-30 million excess empty houses.
There are plenty of “deals” coming your way.
Yep, yep, yep and yep.
54% DTI - Insanity. There is nothing left except Ramen noodles.
FYI (from Wikipedia) - The two main kinds of DTI
The first DTI, known as the front-end ratio, indicates the percentage of income that goes toward housing costs, which for renters is the rent amount and for homeowners is PITI (mortgage principal and interest, mortgage insurance premium [when applicable], hazard insurance premium, property taxes, and homeowners’ association dues [when applicable]).
The second DTI, known as the back-end ratio, indicates the percentage of income that goes toward paying all recurring debt payments, including those covered by the first DTI, and other debts such as credit card payments, car loan payments, student loan payments, child support payments, alimony payments, and legal judgments.
———————————————-
Zillow Housing Forum and The Bearish View
Calculated Risk Blog | 10-14-2012 | Bill McBride
Hanson thinks we are just seeing a stimulus bounce and that prices will start falling again. Here are a few of Hanson’s comments (from notes and memory - Zillow will have a video of the forum available this week).
Hanson argued there is a substantial “shadow inventory” that will come on the market. He talked about the number of homes with negative equity (CoreLogic puts the number at 10.8 million, Zillow put the number at 15.1 million). Hanson also mentioned 6 million delinquent mortgages (LPS puts the number of properties delinquent or in foreclosure at 5.45 million).
And Hanson also mentioned the 6 million recent modifications (he called modified loans the “new subprime” because he thought a large number would default again). Hanson talked about the high “Back-End Debt-to-Income Ratio” even after modification. What Hanson was referring to was the HAMP programs were the borrowers have substantial debt payments in addition to their mortgage payment (student loan, car, other installment loans). In the most recent HAMP report, the back-end DTI was 53.6% after modification, and the front end DTI (principal, interest, taxes, insurance and homeowners association and/or condo fees) was 31%. With these high back-end ratios, Hanson argued many of these people would default (that is why he called it the “new subprime”).
Hanson mentioned several big numbers: 15 million with negative equity, 6 million modifications (more counting other retention programs), 6 million properties currently delinquent. No question there are significant issues for borrowers with negative equity, as an example they will have difficulty moving for a new job, and, as Hanson noted this limits the move-up market. But we can’t add these numbers together because that would mostly be double counting. Most (but not all) of the seriously delinquent borrowers have negative equity - and if they don’t, they can sell their homes and avoid foreclosure.
And most of the modifications have negative equity. And probably all of the listed (visible inventory) contingent short sales have negative equity. So when we are talking about unlisted inventory that will be forced on the market over the next 2 to 3 years, we can mostly ignore negative equity and focus on current and expected delinquencies.
As far as modifications, Hanson focused on the HAMP data (about 1.08 total permanent modifications so far, and about 23% have defaulted). And I agree that many more of these HAMP modifications will default over the next couple years. But there are another 4.6 million proprietary modification programs completed too (these are lender specific programs). Some of this data is available from Hope Now. The lenders also offered additional retention plans. (removed) These borrowers may redefault when the mortgage rates adjust, but that is several years from now - so this isn’t imminent forced inventory on the market.
The most important short term numbers are the 2.02 million properties currently in foreclosure pre-sale inventory (in the foreclosure process) and the 1.52 million properties that are 90 or more days delinquent, but not currently in foreclosure. Many of these properties will be sold as short sales (many are already listed as “short sale contingent”). A large number of these properties that are in foreclosure are located in judicial states, and that means there will not be a huge wave of foreclosures, but a steady stream in those states as the foreclosures work through the courts (and that could keep house prices from increasing).
“54% DTI - Insanity. There is nothing left except Ramen noodles.”
It’s really not that bad. You can always rent a cheaper place. Either downsize your household (of course moving your extra crap into rental storage in the process), move into a less-desirable neighborhood, or both.
If absolutely necessary, move to a less-desirable country.
You can always rent a cheaper place
Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on where you live.
Moving to a less desirable place often means commuting, which can sometimes bite you in the butt with gas or other commuting costs.
There are always cheaper places to rent OR own, but not necessarily where you or anyone else wants to live.
Our DTI is now at 23%. All housing related debt. But when renting we were spending close to 30% of monthly income on rent.
Yes, it’s true, I am not including my trips to Home Depot
“You can always rent a cheaper place”
At some point a cheaper place becomes a tent or homeless shelter.
If you bought a house 1998-2012, you’ve lost money. Alot of money.
what is you bough in 98 and sold in 2005? you made some bank player.
If 2012 is the tail end of the losses, as you say, then doesn’t that make 2012 a housing bottom?
I think he just meant the losses to date. Future losses are harder to predict.
Don’t confuse people with logic Oxide. You and I bought at a good time. For me, living in flyover country and wanting just a small house it made sense to get the tax credit. With that tax credit, I bought at the bottom. Since you live at the East coast where the tax credit would be a much smaller part of the price it made sense to wait.
The Economist in the late Spring found houses 19% too cheap in the U.S. based on rent prices. They have continued to increase by another .2% just this month alone. Since housing prices have also gone up, I do not know whether the difference is still 19%. However, the 19% cushion more than protects people from any down side caused by the diminishing shadow inventory.
P.S. I just refinanced and now how a mortgage with a 3 handle for a 30 year mortgage. It pays to be a contrarian. I also know with the appraisal two things. The $8,000 dollars was more than the decline in the houses value from Feb. 2012 until now. Yes, there was some decline and I expected it.
Second I bought the house for less than its present replacement value by about 11%.
I have never quite got the “its going down or its going up” analysis when buying your personal residence…Maybe its just grounded in my personal desire to stay in one place long term…You only find out if its gone up or down when you sell it…Until then, isn’t it irrelevant ?? I have been in my current place 32 years….
It’s a bit of whistling past the graveyard… “I did NOT make a colossal mistake! I did NOT make a colossal mistake!”
Same thing we were whistling when we were whistling in 2004 when the market couldn’t possibly keep going up but did.
“With that tax credit, I bought at the bottom.”
It’s quite funny you’ve convinced yourself of that false assertion.
The truth?
Those who were taken advantage of by the tax credit were underwater by 2011. And prices are even lower since then.
“Second I bought the house for less than its present replacement value by about 11%.”
What is “replacement value”? Be specific in price/sq ft.
you’ve lost money. Alot of money.
Good thing you didn’t buy when you were house-hunting and making offers last year, eh? Are you still looking?
What have you done with your other two houses? Sold them off like you advise everyone else? Guess not, since you said just a week or two ago that you still own them. If you had one of your offers accepted last year then you’d have owned three houses! Seems like a lot of RE for someone who constantly talks it down and advises everybody else to sell at once or be doomed.
Why don’t you follow your own advice? Are you being deceptive?
Alpa my BubblePimp………
Once again with your misrepresentations?
you’ve lost money. Alot of money.
I lost money on the groceries I bought last year. A lot of money.
Losing a few hundred thousands dollars on a depreciating asset is like buying a pizza? Really? REALLY?
Losing a few……dollars on a depreciating asset is like buying a pizza? Really? REALLY?
Yea really. Really. Really. Housing is like buying lotsa pizzas in many cases.
Example: Darryl in somewhere in AZ bought a1 49K condo which rents for more than his monthly nut. Heck 49K is some rich folk’s tab for a toga party. Darryl’s housing is a consumption item as is pizza. What does he get for his money? He gets shelter. Shelter can be (and many times is reasoned as such on the HBB) looked at as a consumption item.
Darryl is getting something for his money. He is getting shelter. He is consuming shelter instead of pizza although he now has shelter to eat his pizza.
You left out the critical fundamental…… Even a peon can afford to overpay for a pizza that might even be inedible.
A pizza priced in multiples of yearly wages? He’ll never recover financially.
you’ve lost money. Alot of money.
I lost money on the groceries I bought last year. A lot of money.
Gas, groceries, shelter (rent or mortgage): they are all the same to me. These are things I must pay each and every month in order to live in this society.
I guess I *might* consider getting off the grid (would have to buy in order to do that), except I don’t really want to live in the boonies.
I personally just got tired (and older) waiting for rents to collapse in San Francisco. Prices came down enough for us to pay less in PITI than we had been paying in rent, and that’s good enough for me.
Inflation, deflation, total global economic collapse, who knows? None of us here can predict with any certainty what is going to happen.
In the meanwhile, my family and I have a roof over our heads, food in the fridge, and a tank full of gas. For today, that’s enough.
Prices came down enough for us to pay less in PITI than we had been paying in rent,
But this isn’t true. You know it and so do we. You’re paying more per square foot than you were renting.
Why deceive yourself?
Dude,
Last month: 3 bedroom (with a roommate) for $2700 month. No rent control.
This month: 2 bedroom (no roommate!) for $1600 month (excluding taxes). Taxes will be high this year and next until I get my 12-13 tax return.
Lookee here:
The federal income tax advantage provided by the MCC for a homebuyer who keeps the same mortgage loan and lives in the same house in San Francisco will be equal to 15% of the mortgage interest paid annually on a dollar for dollar basis. This means the total of 15% of your mortgage interest is deducted directly from your annual tax debt. The remaining 85% of your mortgage interest is taken as a deduction from your gross income in the usual manner.
Nobody cares about your roomies.
You’re paying more per square for buying than you were renting. You know, we know it. Get over it.
Let It Be Known That No Financial Crisis Was Ever Caused by Stable Money
Forbes | 10/16/2012 | Nathan Lewis
There aren’t many blanket statements you can make about economics. Usually, “it depends.” But, there’s one thing I can say with a fairly high degree of confidence:
No economic crisis was ever caused by stable money.
Of course, many crises happened during the gold standard era, before floating currencies appeared in 1971. In the two centuries before 1971, people got into financial trouble for all kinds of reasons. Banks lent money to people that couldn’t pay it back. Businesses invested in ideas that turned out to be not so hot. Governments borrowed and spent more than they should have. Destructive domestic tax increases were imposed. Countries got into tariff wars with each other. There were even a few World Wars, Civil Wars, communist revolutions, and so forth.
None of them were caused by money that was too stable.
Since 1971, we’ve had a colossal number of crises worldwide that have been caused by unstable money. The entire world had an inflation problem during the 1970s, as the U.S. dollar was devalued from $35/oz. of gold in 1971 to around $350/oz. afterwards. In the 1980s, all of Latin America erupted into currency catastrophe, and spent the next decade in a debilitating hyperinflation. The 1990s witnessed Japan destroy itself with a currency that rose and rose, while all of the Soviet sphere collapsed into hyperinflation. Mexico blew up again in 1995. In 1997-98, another round of currency disasters swept through Asia, and also knocked out Brazil and Russia. Argentina blew up in 2001. Since then, the world has been in another round of currency depreciation, with the dollar’s value sinking from the $350/oz. level to around $1700/oz. today. This will not end happily either.
How about lack of money?
None of them were caused by money that was too stable.
Spain had huge in inflation after discovering vast amounts of gold and silver in the Americas.
So what is stable money?
ergo hoc, propter hoc
ALL macro financials crisis are caused by uncontrolled speculation.
It is “post hoc, ergo propter hoc.”
And as turkey implied, but didn’t specify, it is a logical falacy. Just because one event happens after another event doesn’t mean that the second was caused by the first.
For example, I bought a loaf od bread last night. That doesn’t mean that my purchase of a loaf of bread caused the head of Citibank to resign.
Forbes = Fox News print edition
Buying a house was the worst financial decision of my life, I have discovered.
My now ex-husband and I bought a house in 1989. It cost $227,000 which was actually cheap at the time.
Here’s what I’ve spent on my home.
Mortgage $418,042
Taxes 68,309
Association fees 57,321
Insurance 15,316
========
$558,443
Plumbing, remodel 132,938
========
$691,381
Had I rented for the 272 months I lived there, I could have gotten a place (without paying for utilities) for $2053 a month…and rent wasn’t $2053 a month back in 1989.
I’m actually LOSING for having had a house.
$691,381 (what I paid from 1989 on)
423,000 (what I’ll net after sale)
========
$268,381 = how much money I would have been ahead if I had just rented since 1989.
Why are your association fees so high? Did you get anything for it (golf, pool, snow removal, etc.)
Did you ever take out home equity loans?
$133K remodel???
You also had use of the MID and must include any tax savings into your cost model.
You also assume you would have had the landlord from heaven.
Even using your own numbers:
You would have paid $2053×272 = $558,416 in rent alone.
I never took out a home equity loan. The association dues started out at $100 a month. Over time, as the complex has aged, it has needed costly repairs. Some of the units’ roofs were quite leaky and had to be replaced. Some large trees had to be cut. The driveway needs resurfaced from time to time. Fencing has had to be replaced. We share a pool with a neighboring complex.
It wasn’t all $133,000 on the remodel. I needed a new furnace. I live in California, so I paid $14,000 for an earthquake retrofit. The remodel did turn out very well and added to the price of the home for resale.
You can’t subtract what you would net after a sale from what you have paid so far to get “how much I would have been ahead if I had just rented since 1989.” You have to compare it to the payments you would have made in rent/renters insurance/utilities (yes, most renters pay utilities)/moving costs. Could you have rented for an average of $972 a month for those 23 years? Without moving?
Also, how much is left to pay on your mortgage? You are 23 years in on a 30 year. And why haven’t you refinanced? What was your original rate? Why haven’t you made additional payments to pay it off faster. After 23 years you could easily be finished with that thing with just a little bit of extra a year.
I’m not buying what you are selling. Exeter, is that you?
its one of the doom and gloomers posting under a different screen name everyday.
Why don’t you just come right out and tell us how many AZ investment properties you have to unload, rather than beat around the bush?
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
“its one of the doom and gloomers posting under a different screen name everyday.”
RobertoTheLiar,
Falling and dramatically lower housing prices is bullish optimism. Pick yourself up off the floor boy!
I paid off my 30 year loan in 12 years, saving lots on interest. I’m assuming that whether I rent or bought I would have paid utilities, so I didn’t factor that in.
I did refinance over and over. I don’t know what my original rate was; that info is lost in time. I did make additional payments.
So your numbers are all made up? You can’t claim to have paid for 23 years and then say you paid it all off in 12.
It is easier to tell the truth. You don’t have to keep track of the lies that way.
The poster never claimed to have paid for 23 years. The first statement of payment duration from the poster was the 12 years.
YOU made the statement that “You are 23 years in on a 30 year.”
So she bought a $227K house in 1989 and paid it off in 12 years, paying $418K in the process?
I want to see the real numbers. And it still has to be realistically compared with the comparable rents over the 23 years since the house was purchased.
Did you take cash OUT with each refinance?
No.
So, if it’s paid off, you now have a free-and-clear home, subject to the benefits of Prop 13. Then at least $227k of your payments went to pay down principal.
So, your “$268k” worse off is at MOST $41k worse off…and if you think you can get $41k out of your $132k remodel, you are even…assuming the home is only worth today what you paid in 1989 +$41k.
I did refinance over and over.
Sure wish I could have refinanced my rent.
I paid almost $300K in rent and all I got was a landlady that kept my security deposit.
I agree with both you and Banana:
1. “Linda” would have been $232K ahead only if her rent was $0.
2. Polly: interest rate would have been 9.5%. $418K over 272 months is $1536/month principal + interest. Assume a $182K mortgage (20% down). Iterate interest rates into Bankrate’s mort calculator, and 9.5% gives a $1530 P+I. Close enough. And they never refinanced ONCE over 23 years?
3. $133K is very reasonable for 22 years remodel if the house needs some fixing up. But $227K in 1989? A “cheap” $227K house in 1989 was pretty high end, and should have been pristine move-in condition.
4. If it were a high-end house in 1989, it should be worth more than $423K now. Especially with the remodel.
5. Banana is right on the HOA fees. Maybe rent wasn’t $2053 a month in 1989, but HOA fees weren’t $210 a month in 1989 either. “Linda” must be on a golf course…
$418K is what she claims it would sell for now. The alleged purchase price was $227K.
$418K is what she claims she spent on the mortgage P+I.
$423K is what she claims it would sell for now.
She paid more than twice the purchase price in P+I alone, and that was after making all those extra payments? The interest rate must have been closer to 11 or 12%. But when all is said and done, she still made out better than paying rent.
Is he using another moniker? I suspect half of the posts are Exeter and the other half are Prof Bear
You forgot the half that are paid Republican political prostitute posts…
The paid housing pimps really are desperate to divert attention from the fundamental point of this blog. Keep everyone talking about the duopoly and if housing does come up, the lies flow lie water.
Good point Polly, 1989=11% 30 yr fixed rate. Hard to believe she didn’t refinance.
Wow, what a skeptical crowd. I’m ME, Linda, first of all. No one else but me. I scrimped and saved and made extra payments to pay off my $227,000 home in 12 years. Plus, I hit it big on two IPOs in a row…made $500,000 in what amounted to extra pay in 6 years time. Plus I was a technical writer and made $90 grand to $100 grand when I was working.
I did refinance but never took money out…my whole goal was to pay off my house as fast as possible, and I did. Had I not done the remodel I would have been better off, but I was making good money and wanted a nice place.
Also, how much is left to pay on your mortgage? You are 23 years in on a 30 year.
Linda, why not just sell and rent, then? You would have some cash from the sale - something which you would not have had if you had rented all those years.
How much of your mortgage payments paid down principal on the loan? You should excluded these dollars from the analysis.
In many years of paying for my home, I made extra payments on the principal. Other times, I just made an extra payment ahead of schedule. To do my analysis, I went through my checkbooks to see what I paid. I offered this information to this crowd because I thought it would be of interest. It took me two days to go through all my checkbook stubs.
She gave those numbers:
P+I = $418K.
P = $182K (I’m assuming $227K - 20% down)
Therefore I = $236K in interest. That is, interest was 130% of principal. Even with paying down in 12 years and multiple refinances, that still must have been a whopper of an interest rate. For reference, I’m doing the 13-payments-a-year thing (22.5 yr until payoff), and my interest will be 52% of principal.
But shouldn’t a simple total pay buy vs. total pay rent be sufficient? In total, she effectively paid $268K to live there for 23 years. If she had rented, she would have paid about $400K* in rent. And that’s including the expensive renovations and HOA fees etc. AND if she stays in her paid-off house even longer, that’s a lot more rent saved. Despite what she says, buying was in clearly her favor.
——————
*A quick and dirty appoximation of rent increases: $1000/month for 136 months, and $2000/month for the next 136 months –> $408K rent.
Sorry, math fail on my prior posts…
You are not comparing apples to apples…if you “just rented”, you would have had to pay a lot of money that you would have “been ahead” over those 272 months. In other words, part of the $268k you would have “been ahead” would have been paid in rent.
The $268k is the difference between what you paid and what you are getting. 272 months. $268k divided by 272 months equals $985 per month.
Could you have rented a place as nice for $985 per month for all 272 months?
Why are you dividing $268k by 272? I paid out $691,381 for the privilege of owning a home. Where I to pay out rent money during the 272 months of living there, I would have been able to have afforded rent of $2540 or so. Rents in 1989 were far lower than $2540, so over time, I would have saved a lot more money by renting than by owning. I was fascinated but dismayed by this discovery - I always thought you were money ahead by owning a home. Now I know better.
I passed this information on to my step-daughter-to-be and she felt better about being in her present situation of renting.
272 is the number of monthly rent checks you would have to have sent in 22 and 2/3’s years.
Your analysis:
Your net cost was $268k (since you ended up with a home worth over $400k net of sales commissions). So, you paid $268k over 23 years ($985 per month) for the privilege of owning a home.
You WOULD HAVE PAID $___________ per month over 272 months for the privilege of renting a home.
The over/under is $985 per month. If on average it would have cost you less than $985 per month to rent the home, you would have been better off renting. If on average, it would have cost you more than $985 per month to rent the home, you would have been better off buying.
This analysis of course does not include the cost of capital over that timeframe.
Said another way, you paid $691k, but got back $423k.
If you paid $691k in rents ($2,540 per month), you would get back $0.
This is why the analysis on rent should be done on the net, not gross.
The net is $985 per month, not $2,540 per month.
I’ve listed my place for $449,000. What I’ll gross is after the realtors take their share, which is close to $423,00.
The bottom line is, as I am now retired, I regret having paid so much money for a home, especially a townhouse. I think I would have been better off renting or buying a single family home. The association fees are now $435 a month. Taxes are $4,000 a year. I’m selling and using the proceeds to buy into my fiance’s home so that his kids don’t kick me out if he goes first.
I think I would have been better off renting or buying a single family home.
That’s the kicker right there.
Condo fees are taking their toll on my retired mother and her (now) very valuable Upper West side apartment.
My thought as well. Rents in the early 90’s CA. were running 10% of the monthly mortgage. A (let’s say) then-$300K valued house would be renting for somewhere north of $2800 a month. And that’s without calculating in inflation and moving costs.
We kept a similar rental in Newport between 1987 and 2002 and the rents went from $2600 a month to over $4000 in that period. That $985 wouldn’t have got you a 2/1 apartment in Lawndale.
ad I rented for the 272 months I lived there
Do you think you would have rented the same place for 272 months? How many times would you have moved?
I hate hate hate moving. Blech ugh stress.
That’s just me, though. Some people are fine to move every 4-6 years.
Any thoughts on why Vikram Pandit would suddenly resign from Citi?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49429100
Somebody discovered where the bodies were buried?
Or the bodies couldn’t be buried so now they are beginning to stink?
This is the way I would bet.
they have been cooking the books for years and sh@t is going to hit the fan soon?
Maybe he just wants to spend more time with his family.
Lol. You are on a roll.
“To pursue other interests” needs to be added in.
The third quarter just ended. Might have something to do with that; maybe the auditors got religion or something.
I dunno. Sometimes I wonder if these Indian guys are being made the whipping boys for Wall Street sins, like Rajaratnam and Gupta. Hope Pandit didn’t get sucked into the vortex as well.
Dark skinned foreigners go to prison.
White Skull and Bones society members walk free.
That’s sort of along the lines of what I was thinking, although Gupta and Pandit are not particularly dark skinned. But they’re foreign.
White Skull and Bones society members walk free ??
And live in Crawford & Jackson Hole…..
are not particularly dark skinned
The preferred nomenclature is “naturally tanned”
The Bair book just came out talking about how Pandit was in over his head from the start. That might have given his opponents sufficient ammunition to topple him.
If he actually winds up serving time, then the trifecta will be in play.
“…about how Pandit was in over his head from the start.”
Vikram, meet Barack. Barack, meet Vikram.
Insider trading…
Wasn’t he supposed to work for $1 and get tens of millions of shares in options? Well citi is at a new high…..cash out time..
That might explain why he resigned as CEO. But why would he also resign from the Board? I suspect his abrupt complete break with Citi has more to do with future news than personal retirement.
That’s what I’m thinking. Film at 11.
Might this be the prelude to one of those long-awaited criminal indictments? Of the federal sort?
It will never end as long as government is involved in keeping “college” affordable.
It is ironic - isn’t it? The more government gets involved, the more they try “help” keep costs down, the more money government spends - the more educational costs go up.
It is also the same with housing and health care.
The only way to reduce the cost of college is to get government OUT of financing/guaranteeing educational costs. This also includes allowing student debt to be wiped out in bankruptcy.
Nearly overnight, college cost would start the long journey DOWN back to affordability.
—————————–
Well-Off Will Benefit Most From Change to Student Debt Relief Plan, Study Says
New York Times | October 16, 2012 | ANDREW MARTIN
With nearly one in six student loan borrowers in default, the federal government is making changes to its income-based repayment plan to help borrowers with relatively high debt and low incomes keep up with their payments.
But a report that will be released on Tuesday by the New America Foundation, a nonprofit and nonpartisan policy institute, says the changes ultimately will provide only marginal help for low-income borrowers who are at the greatest risk of default.
Rather, the changes would provide big benefits to middle- and high-income borrowers, particularly for those seeking a graduate degree, the authors found. The report says that at least one financial planning company is telling law school students that the changes could allow them to write off $100,000 in student debt.
…
The New America Foundation report says the changes to income-based repayment could provide some benefits to all participants. But the primary beneficiaries would be high-income, high-debt participants who could make relatively small payments for 20 years and then have a large part of their debt forgiven, the authors said.
The foundation cites as an example advice given by financial planners such as the Advantage Group in California.
“Stop wasting your money on student loan payments,” says the Advantage Group Web site. The firm notes that an average graduate from California Western School of Law owes more than $145,000 in student loans, amounting to monthly payments of more than $1,690.
But the changes introduced by the Obama administration could allow a graduate making $70,000 a year to reduce monthly payments to $448 a month and “have over $100,000 of debt forgiven,” the Advantage Group says.
I noticed you managed to get in your usual insinuation that ‘it’s all Obama’s fault’ at the bottom of your post This trend was in place before Obama was in office.
Isn’t there a “WE HATE OBAMA” blog somewhere that you could take your rage?
Have you heard the one about the masochist and the sadist?
The masochist asks the sadist to hurt him. The sadist says, “No.”
Reading these anti-Obama diatribes gets so boring. Trouble is, the other HBB posts in response to them don’t make much sense if you invoke the Joshua Tree Extension to screen them out.
Sorry - I forgot.
Obama in the White House for 4 years. A super majority in Senate. A filibuster proof senate.
But NOTHING is obama’s fault.
I will report immediately to re-education camp #17940
BTW - do have any comments on the FACTS of the article?
There was a never a super majority, liar.
Now shouldn’t you be fetching us clean towels, cabana boy?
Stop taking fruitboi so personally, birdboy. We all know he secretly dreams of a threesome with Elena Kagan and Barney Frank
Or maybe he’s just an attention ho who will end up like this guy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/michael-brutsch-reddits-biggest-loses-job-identity-gawker_n_1967727.html:
Media is now outing people. I predict this will end badly.
“Obama in the White House for 4 years. A super majority in Senate. A filibuster proof senate.”
This is troll territory. I have disputed your two year super majority claim several times and yet you still continue to spout it as fact.
Effectively, Obama never had a super majority, because some conservative Democrats sided with Republicans on some issues and NO Republicans ever crossed party lines.
I support those Democrats that cross party lines. I think it is better for democracy when parties are not able to enforce discipline so strongly as the Republicans have been able to do.
“…super majority in Senate. A filibuster proof senate….”
Nanerz has posted this exact same BS a dozen+ times now, and every time someone bothers to call him on it.
Why waste Ben’s bandwidth?
A super majority in Senate
The Democrats only had the 60 votes needed to override filibusters 4.5 months and those 4.5 months were early in Obama’s term and at a point where Obama still thought the Repubs would work with him on stuff. At that point it was the politically wise choice to not ram stuff through on 60 vote party line votes.
This false argument “super majority in the Senate” is also a disingenuous argument as it implies Obama should have rammed things through on a one party line whereas the one thing that Obama did on party lines (ObamaCare) is now derided by the Repubs as being “shoved down our throats”. The Repubs do not argue issues seriously.
But NOTHING is obama’s fault.
Nothing? You find it impossible to fathom someone might not like Obama much but will still vote for him over the Repub losers? This kind of thinking would be expected from a child or someone with an IQ of about 85. It’s all-or-nothing type statement that shows a lack of critical thinking. And that you repeatedly do it after being called on it shows that you might not have the capacity to understand what I just wrote.
Sorry to interrupt the “coke vs pepsi” psuedo-debate, but one interesting figure is 1/6th of the kids are in default, but via other sources I’m seeing only 1/2 of new grads are getting “real jobs”. So a bit of high level engineerin’ math and assume all the defaulters are the kids without real jobs, and I figure about 1/3 of kids should soon be in default but are not in default. Why? Or more like “how”? Does waiting tables pay that well? Or “Zumba instruction”? What does a kid with $150K in student loan debt and no job do to not enter default? Enter .mil? Double down into grad school?
P.S. My state was going 100% odds to Obama so I was not getting pelted with robocalls and junk mail until now, but its approaching very near 50/50 I’m getting roughly one robocall every two hours during the day, multiple campaign flyers in the mail every day, even getting door to door Obama supporters now, none of them have jobs so plenty of time to go door2door, not sure where the Rmoney supporters are, probably out burning crosses. I’m voting Johnson because neither Mr coke nor Mr pepsi appeal to me in any manner and I don’t want to throw my vote away. I just thought it was interesting to report that I haven’t seen this level of advertising since the peak of the bubble (when I used to get 3 or 4 credit card, agent, and mortgage offers Per Day in the mail, etc). I would imagine this is extremely bullish for media/spam companies and the unemployment rate … at least until mid November.
Well, at least get your history correct.
The party of the KKK is the democratic party
The party of Jim Crow Laws is the democratic party
The party of segregation is the democratic party
The party that filibustered Civil Rights Legislation for 20 years is the democratic party
I know you went to public school and don’t believe me. So Google it.
Rmoney supporters are, probably out burning crosses.
Trolling misdirection, again.
The Southern Democrats are now Republicans and switched over civil rights. But you knew that.
“The Southern Democrats are now Republicans and switched over civil rights. But you knew that.”
You guys keep trying that one…the jig is up. It’s patently false, how stupid do you think people are? Do they teach that lie in communism 101 or 102?. Oh, and he left out Bull Connor, he was also a Democrat.
It’s patently false, how stupid do you think people are?
Keep writing and we’ll get a better idea Nicole.
“Oh, and he left out Bull Connor, he was also a Democrat.”
How many Democrats are left in Alabama now? It was reliably Democrat up until the Civil Rights Act passed. Shortly thereafter it became reliably Republican. Do you really contend that all of those southern racist Democrats suddenly became not racist when they switched to the Republican party?
And it was a Romney supporter spotted with a T-shirt that said, put the white back in the White House.
put the white back in the White House.
I want my country back.
You got a link to the photos or video?
You got a link to the photos or video?
You got a current prescription to your meds? In Brazil or Denmark you could get them for “free”.
“You got a link to the photos or video?”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/man-at-romney-rally-in-ohio-wears-shirt-put-the-w
And this is why many of us who MIGHT vote republican don’t. Because they BECAME the party of bigotry. If republicans were still the republicans of Abe Lincoln’s time, they would be pushing for legalizing gay marriage. It’s a completely weird deal how the parties changed sides on the ’social liberties’ fence.
the “coke vs pepsi” psuedo-debate,
You might want to explain that to the “Citizens United” 4 dissenting SCOTUS justices.
I’m downright sad. No one wants to talk about why only 1/6th of the kids are defaulting when job stats show about 1/2 should be in default.
I honestly wonder if its a “shadow inventory” like housing. Perhaps for political reasons, in which case the big story in a couple months will be the default rate expanding from 1/6 now to 1/2 in the near future. “no one ever could have predicted…”
Or if not political reasons, maybe they just don’t have the manpower to file all the paperwork … after all … nondischargeable … so you’ve got a lifetime to collect from young kids. Who knows, maybe after the 2nd great depression, during WWIII they’ll get high paying jobs?
Or intentionally sit on it waiting for inflation to do its magic?
Or the kids are discharging it some other way? Put it all on cash advance credit cards, let it season a couple months, bankruptcy, flush…
I’ll just repeat… I’m sad, I honestly wanted to know how this part of the credit bubble works.
Sorry Vince, all I have is speculation at this point.
Some are doubling down to grad school. Some are living with parents to reduce expenses while paying their loans off.
Some of the defaulters are going abroad. So not only are we sending jobs out of the country, but now we are forcing our educated youngsters there as well.
I haven’t seen any numbers to support which options are being taken by how many people.
Nor have I seen anything about how many of the new grads are older folks who went for retraining when their jobs went poof. They may no longer care about SS because the banks will claim it.
I just had an interesting thought. Will the banks favor keeping SS as is so they can collect on student loans?
Maybe we can reduce the cost of National Defense by getting the Federal government OUT of it.
All of those countries that formerly relied on our free protective shield can jsut call the mercenaries at Blackwater, or Xe, or whatever they are calling themselves now.
Free Market, baby.
WSJ - Citigroup CEO Vikram Pandit Resigns:
“Citigroup Inc Chief Executive Vikram Pandit is stepping down, effective immediately, and will be succeeded by Michael Corbat.
“Given the progress we have made in the last few years, I have concluded that now is the right time for someone else to take the helm at Citigroup,” Mr. Pandit said in a statement.
Mr. Pandit became CEO at Citigroup in December 2007 and spent the earlier part of his career at Morgan Stanley.
President and Chief Operating Officer John P. Havens also resigned.
Mr. Havens had been planning to retire from Citi at year-end but decided, in light of Mr. Pandit’s resignation, to leave the company now.”
Yeah, I posted above on this. Wonder why?
I mean, I can understand someone wanting to leave their gig, people do it all the time, but usually with a corporation, unless the person is being “ousted” by the board, there’s usually some sort of runway, with successors being considered, etc.
“Wonder why?”
Stay tuned; No doubt we are about to find out.
Wasn’t he getting some token $1.00 a year salary? I couldn’t live on that, lol.
Must’ve had a heckuva bonus and benefits package, though.
And maybe grateful (and very generous) friends/business associates.
(It’s a private club, and you ain’t in it.)
Interesting. I was just reading yesterday something about one of the Pritzkers in Chicago setting up some sort of retirement estate in Hawaii for the Obamas, to the tune of $30 million.
Nope, I”m not in that private club that has benefactors.
Corbat is a very white-skinned Harvard man…
Do you notice the similarity between posers who are paid to post pretend political views on blogs and those people who were paid to live in otherwise-vacant homes to show they were occupied?
We are becoming a pretend society of paid prostitutes. I find the trend quite disturbing.
“We are becoming a pretend society of paid prostitutes”
$hit flows downhill. The example is set at the top.
And I don’t mean just the folks in Wallington. I see this now with even small businesses. Buddy of mine has a gig with a small business and has done quite well in his area, boosting sales, customer relations, etc. Who got the bonuses? Management. And then they added insult to injury by hiring on a family friend of one of the managers, who is non-productive, but who is siphoning off the business my bud brought in, through a “re-assignment” of territory.
Poor guy is a mess, all this happened just as he thought he’d be recognized for two years of hard work. He worked to create a job for a parasite.
He built it, and now he gets to suck it down until it ceases to exist.
Small (mom and pop) size businesses are the worst to work for. either as an employee or a vendor.
Not all of them suck, but most of them do.
I worked for one for a couple of years. The owner, who was a money guy who didn’t know the actual details of the operation, would come in and out of work between rounds of golf. When he was around, he sat in the biggest office in the building and chain smoked.
All told, it was quite an amusing spectacle!
Yeah - that sucks.
Why don’t you start your OWN business and let us know how it goes…
Dang it, you forgot the towels again! Sorry, but I can’t take advice from someone who can’t even master a simple job like cabana boy.
Small (mom and pop) size businesses are the worst to work for.
Since most mom-n-pop businesses don’t know where their next meal is coming from, that’s hardly surprising.
Oh the stories I could tell…
Trying to ripoff their vendors, employees and investors is just one small part of it all. Having their vendors trying to rip them off in another.
Poor choices of customer loyalty. Piss poor QC. The list is long.
WSJ - Gas Market Stung by Rapid Traders:
“Veteran natural-gas trader John Woods has a simple trading strategy around data on U.S. gas stockpiles: Stay away.
Mr. Woods and other floor traders on the New York Mercantile Exchange used to look forward to the weekly report of gas-inventory figures by the U.S. Energy Information Administration, widely considered the best reading of gas supply and demand in the U.S. Traders would be glued to their computers before the data’s release at 10:30am on Thursdays, ready to dive into the busiest trading window of the week.
But in the past few months, unusual trading patterns have pushed many seasoned traders to the sidelines. One reason for the irregular activity is a strategy known as “banging the beehive,” in which high-speed traders send a flood of orders in an effort to trigger huge price swings just before the data hit.”
I know a few energy traders. They are stone cold crazy.
I know longer have any doubts or questions about why our energy industry is such a mess. It’s controlled by the insane.
“knoa”
Paul Ryan pretends to volunteer at soup kitchen.
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/10/15/1017651/ryan-soup-kitchen/?mobile=nc
“They showed up there and they did not have permission. They got one of the volunteers to open up the doors… The photo-op they did wasn’t even accurate. He did nothing. He just came in here to get his picture taken at the dining hall.” - President of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, Brian J. Antal
Just like Mitt pretends to create jobs while actually sending them to communist China.
Did he have any volunteer experience before running for Veep? (I know Romney did — seriously!)
Why does not Cantankerous Intellectual Bomb Thrower ask of this post:
“Isn’t there a “WE HATE ROMNEY/RYAN/PALIN/BUSH” blog somewhere that you could take your rage?”
“You forgot the half that are paid Democrat political prostitute posts”
“It’s the paid Democrat political prostitution blog…”
Go look up the meaning of the word “hypocrisy”
Propaganda technique #100,001: Take a post that asks a very innocuous question about Paul Ryan and compliments Romney on his volunteerism and pretend that it was some kind of political dig.
Your thinking is truly twisted, two-ti-fruitti…
Volunteering to convert the French to Mormonism?
Being familiar with Youngstown and northeastern Ohio and the deindustrialization of the last three decades, that’s just too cute showing up at a soup kitchen to feed the Lucky Duckies whose jobs were outsourced because of the business practices of his vulture capitalist running mate, LOLZ!
Over the weekend, I was at the public library’s screening of the documentary “As Goes Janesville.” It described what happened to Janesville, Wisconsin after the GM plant closed. (Think “Roger and Me” and Flint, Michigan moved to the western side of Lake Michigan.)
One of the audience members was from Janesville. She used to work for the law firm where Paul Ryan’s dad worked. She described both father and son as being VERY unpleasant people.
OTOH, last year, after the January 8 shootings, there was a huge shrine set up outside the University Medical Center. That’s where the victims were treated.
Any-hoo, I made quite a few trips to the shrine. A lot of us locals did that. It was how we coped with such an awful thing happening in our town.
During one shrine visit, I got to talking with a University Medical Center security guard. He was on duty when the Obamas came to visit the hospital on January 12, 2011. The guard described both Barack and Michelle as very nice people.
Well, to be fair, “nice” can be faked. But no one running for office pretends to be a jerk. So those insider reports can be enlightening.
The U.S. is going to build its way back to prosperity…
Oct. 16, 2012, 10:00 a.m. EDT
Oct. builder sentiment edges up to six-year high
By Steve Goldstein
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Builder confidence in October edged higher to mark the sixth gain in a row and the top reading in more than six years, a trade group said Tuesday in the latest indicator of a revival in the housing market. The National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo housing market index nudged up 1 point to 41, marking the highest level since June 2006. Economists polled by MarketWatch anticipated a slightly better read of 42. Still, the index - which historically has a very strong correlation with single-family housing starts - has surged from as low as 17 in Oct. 2011, even though it hasn’t reached the 50 level indicating more builders than not see good conditions. In October, the component measuring current sales conditions stayed at 42 and the component measuring sales prospects for the next six months stayed at 51. The index measuring traffic of prospective buyers rose 5 points to 35, the highest level since April 2006.
Unless we are rebuilding our 19th century infrastructure, we’re still screwed.
DO NOT buy housing now. Tell everyone.
In the past 2-1/2 years our rent has gone up a total of 1.7% but as a percent of gross monthly income has decreased from 13.8% to 13.3%.
Metro Denver is still 20-30% overpriced as compared with median household incomes.
And whats even better for you, rental rates are cratering in Denver.
The largest year-over-year percent declines in rental prices were observed in:
Denver (-8.8%)
Chicago (-4.8%)
Los Angeles (-2.6%)
http://newsroom.transunion.com/MediaLibraries/TransUnion/Documents/graphics/1Q12/Q1-2012_SolutionsReport.pdf
Why buy when rental rates and housing prices are falling?
We got hit with the increase 2 years and 3 months into our tenancy because we briefly went month-to-month (because of possible job relocation) and upon signing a new lease they added half of the month-to-month premium into the monthly rent.
They have replaced the building’s elevators, redone the landscaping, weather treated the window frames, and restriped the parking lot since we moved in, and next year they are replacing the rooftop deck.
It really sucks after “throwing money away” on rent to have all this money left over to buy new skis and a ski pass, fly to Florida this winter, and buy a new car next summer. Loanownership is for LOOSERS!
to have all this money left over to buy new skis and a ski pass, fly to Florida this winter, and buy a new car next summer.
I hope you’re packing at least some of that left over money into a savings account.
Yes we are, and receiving a whopping 0.1% APY on it from local credit union. Trying our best to avoid doing business with TARP banks or the Wall Street parasites. If we “invest” in anything it would be something bland like Fidelity’s S&P index fund (FUSEX).
And to Bill-in-wherever’s post sometime ago that skiing is a waste of money, yes it is at Vail, Breckenridge, Aspen, and the other big name resorts. Most of our skiing will be National Forest backcountry, costing only the gas to get there.
From Bloomberg:
Manhattan apartment rents surged in September, coming within 2.1 percent of the peak, as improving employment boosted competition among tenants.
The median monthly rent jumped to $3,195, up 10 percent from a year earlier and 3.2 percent from August, according to a report today by appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. and broker Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate. The number of new leases signed last month jumped 55 percent from a year earlier to 2,535, as renters facing sharp renewal increases moved out in search of better deals, said Jonathan Miller, president of New York-based Miller Samuel.
“This is not a fluke,” he said. “This is where the die has been cast for the next year or two years.”
Improving employment in the city has increased demand for leasing, putting monthly rents on course to surpass the 2006 peak of $3,265 in the first quarter of 2013, according to Miller. Newly hired potential tenants are competing for housing in a market already crowded with would-be homebuyers who are lingering in their apartments because they can’t get a mortgage, he said. New York City added 77,400 jobs in the 12 months through August, according to the state Labor Department.
Yes… even rental rates in Manhattan are under pressure and FALLING.
Clinton takes Obama off Libya hook
Yeah, right. What about the mantra that the coverup was worse than the crime in Watergate???
Is this case that doesn’t apply. In Libya we lost 4 patriats. In Watergate no one died.
‘The back-and-forth bickering over the tragedy in Benghazi has focused on so many trees that the forest never came into view. Not only did the hearing fall far short in establishing genuine accountability, it was bereft of vision. Without vision, the old proverb says, the people perish — and that includes American diplomats. The killings in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012, validate that wisdom. If the U.S. does not change the way it relates to the rest of the world, and especially to the Muslim world, more and more people will perish. If we persist on the aggressive path we are on, Americans will in no way be safer.’
‘It is a lot easier, of course, to attack a defenseless Muslim country, like Libya, when a supine House of Representatives forfeits the prerogative reserved to Congress by the Constitution to authorize and fund wars — or to refuse to authorize and fund them.’
‘At Tuesday’s hearing, Kucinich noted that in Libya “we intervened, absent constitutional authority.” Most of his colleagues reacted with the equivalent of a deep yawn, as though Kucinich had said something “quaint” and “obsolete.” Like most of their colleagues in the House, most Oversight Committee members continue to duck this key issue, which directly involves one of the most important powers/duties given the Congress in Article I of the Constitution.’
‘Many of those now doing their best to make political hay out of the Benghazi “scandal” are the same legislators who appealed strongly for the U.S. to bomb Libya and remove Gadhafi. This, despite it having been clear from the start that eastern Libya had become a new beachhead for al-Qaeda and other terrorists. From the start, it was highly uncertain who would fill the power vacuums in the east and in Tripoli.’
‘As Congress failed to exercise its constitutional duties — to debate and vote on wars — Obama, along with his Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Hillary Clinton, took a page out of the Bush/Cheney book and jumped into a new war. On Libya, the Obama administration dissed Congress even more blatantly than Cheney and Bush did on Iraq, where there was at least the charade of a public debate, albeit perverted by false claims about Iraq’s WMDs and Saddam Hussein’s ties to al-Qaeda.’
‘And so Defense Secretary Panetta and Secretary of State Clinton stepped off cheerily to strike Libya with the same kind of post-war plan that Cheney, Bush, and then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had for Iraq — none. Small wonder chaos reigns in Benghazi and other parts of the country.’
‘Constitutionally, the craven Congress is a huge part of the problem. Only a few members of the House and Senate seem to care very much when presidents act like kings and send off troops drawn largely by a poverty draft to wars not authorized (or simply rubber-stamped) by Congress.’
‘At a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 7, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Alabama, pursued this key issue with Panetta and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey. Chafing ex post facto at the unauthorized nature of the war in Libya, Sessions asked repeatedly what “legal basis” would the Obama administration rely on to do in Syria what it did in Libya.’
‘Watching that part of the testimony it seemed to me that Sessions, a conservative Southern lawyer, was not at all faking when he pronounced himself “almost breathless,” as Panetta stonewalled time after time. Panetta made it explicitly clear that the administration does not believe it needs to seek congressional approval for wars like Libya. At times he seemed to be quoting verses from the Book of Cheney.’
‘Sessions: “I am really baffled … The only legal authority that’s required to deploy the U.S. military [in combat] is the Congress and the president and the law and the Constitution.”
‘Panetta: “Let me just for the record be clear again, Senator, so there is no misunderstanding. When it comes to national defense, the president has the authority under the Constitution to act to defend this country, and we will, Sir.’
http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2012/10/15/the-real-blame-for-deaths-in-libya/
‘Since the advent of Madeleine Albright as secretary of state in 1997, the United States has become increasingly ideologically committed to the spreading of “instant powdered democracy” in every nation of the world, as defined and approved by the United States. Russia and China have become the main “conservative” or “right-wing” powers committed to preserving the status quo.’
‘Ironically, the U.S. commitment to continual revolution around the world is a revival of the discredited concepts of Leon Trotsky. Nikita Khrushchev revived Trotsky’s disastrous concept: he and his successor, Leonid Brezhnev, drained their superpower dry by pouring resources into promoting revolution throughout the developing world, from 1954 in Egypt to Afghanistan in 1979-87. This led to the collapse of the Soviet system.’
‘Today, it is the United States under presidents of both parties that has embraced the Trotskyite delusion. The bipartisan policy of the United States has become Permanent Revolution until Total and Perfect Democracy is finally achieved. This can only end the way it ended for Maximilien Robespierre in the French Revolution and for Trotsky in the Bolshevik one.’
‘It is fitting that so many of the older generation of American neoconservatives started life as communist enthusiasts in the 1930s and ’40s. For today’s neocons are really neo-Trotskyites promoting the old, doomed enthusiasms under a new label.’
‘Democracy works admirably in societies where it is allowed to develop organically. But when other governments try to accelerate its growth artificially or hasten its triumph from outside, especially when they resort to military force to do so, the result is almost always a fierce reaction against the forces of democracy. This reaction often generates extreme fascist, repressive, and intolerant forces. And these forces usually win and take power. Then they impose themselves on the societies in question, delaying any real democratic development for decades or generations.’
‘The efforts of the French Revolutionaries and Napoleon to export liberty, equality, and brotherhood across Europe by fire and sword instead ensured the survival of the old traditional empires for another 120 years. The efforts of Lenin and Trotsky to export socialism and communism by similar means were even more catastrophic. The backlash against them in Germany propelled Adolf Hitler to power.’
‘It is not in America’s interests to follow in those footsteps—to put it mildly.’
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/from-kennan-to-trotsky/
Dennis Kucinich… who along with Ron Paul will be leaving Congress this year. With a ticket of those two we could have had a single payer national health care system and an end to the military industrial complex.
Instead we get R/R or O/B to “choose” from. At least Kucinich has a hot young wife to enjoy in his retirement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Kucinich
“Instead we get R/R or O/B to “choose” from.”
Johnson’s not on the ballot in your state? I know he got blocked in a couple states.
R/R and O/B don’t want to support me, fine I won’t support them. I’m voting for Johnson. You should too. Don’t throw your vote away on a D or R…
They might both be evil, but they’re smart enough to figure out what policies might get me to vote for them. My dream outcome for the election is all the battleground states have a margin of victory for D or R smaller than the # of Johnson votes. That Might result in a better 2016.
Johnson is on the ballot here in Colorado and thanks to a marijuana decriminilization inititiative is “stealing” votes from both R’s and D’s. We will be voting for him, and as posted here recently, am hoping for a rerun of Florida 2000 here with our 9 lowly electoral votes deciding the race
I may be joining you. This election is a tough one for me.
Don’t throw your vote away on a D or R…
+1, vince. Only when you’re not voting your conscience, are you really throwing your vote away.
I donated money to Obama’s campaign as the most likey way to keep Romney out of the office, but since my state will go to Obama, I am free to vote for Jill Stein. I REALLY wish we’d switch to ranked run-offs. Then I could vote Stein->Johnson->Wiley E. Coyote->Obama->Romney.
At least Kucinich has a hot young wife to enjoy in his retirement.
She will leave him if he doesn’t land another powerful position somewhere else.
He will do just fine in academia or non-profits. He has one of the lowest net worths in Congress so the wife isn’t in it just for money.
Just saw them at the Green Festival in Washington. I don’t think she’ll leave him. Elizabeth was an activist since she was like, 12, so money was never an object for her.
Maybe…
If they had a super-majority in the house and filibuster proof senate.
Oh wait…
Dennis Kucinich… who along with Ron Paul will be leaving Congress this year. With a ticket of those two we could have had a single payer national health care system and an end to the military industrial complex.
There was never a super majority. Liar.
Ben,
I had to speed read it, but I think I agree with most of your post.
Why do we even have to be involved with all of these foreign wars? IMO we should bring them “all” home except for a few democracies.
All of our good will and all of our blood has been spent for what???
We tried nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan but will the efforts go for naught?
‘Why do we even have to be involved with all of these foreign wars’
We don’t, but then the question is why are we?
It’s getting a lot worse. One bit of blow-back from the Libya intervention was the arms flowing in to Mali and who takes over? Now the White House is preparing for intervention there.
Just consider this from McGovern’s piece:
‘And were the witnesses aware of al-Qaeda’s growing presence in Libya, Kucinich asked. One of the witnesses, Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, an Army Green Beret who led a 16-member Special Forces security team to protect Americans in Libya from February to August, replied that al-Qaeda’s “presence grows every day. They are certainly more established than we are.”
‘Congressman Kucinich went on to ask the witnesses if they knew how many shoulder-to-air missiles were on the loose in Libya. Nordstrom: “Ten to twenty thousand.”
Remember I was against the Libyan intervention. Since the people most against Khadaffi were from the eastern part of the country and that area provided many fighters to Iraq to fight our troops it was a no brainer to see it would not end well.
I am also against any intervention in Syria but it is a closer call since it is an ally of Iran. But it seems to me the best policy is a long war where Sunni Islamic fundamentalists go to die fighting Hezbollah forces with Iran being bled by the cost of propping up Syria. The Gulf states can finance it and we can enjoy eating popcorn here watching the nuts kill each other.
We are in these places because of oil.
Can anyone think of something the US might do that would reduce our consumption of oil??
A-dan??
Seems like driving a VOLT which might reduce gas consumption 50-90% might be a good idea.
Maybe all these costs of war should be paid for with a gas tax.
By contrast, Romney is planning to ramp up military spending in order to…
NOT INTERVENE AS MUCH???
Reduce housing prices so that people don’t have to trade off commute distance so extremely against housing cost?
We should invade Baltimore
LOL
It sounds like a whole lot of other folks besides Obama deserve blame for the policy failure.
Of course, none of this would have happened if Romney had been president…
California Central Valley leads nation – again – in foreclosures
http://www.centralvalleybusinesstimes.com/stories/001/?ID=21876
5 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Buy a House Right Now
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/09/07/buying-a-home-5-reasons-not-to-right-now/
DO NOT buy housing now.
Rental vacancy rates at multi-decade highs.
With massive rental inventory like this, how can rental rates ever stop falling?
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7616/vacancym.jpg
Here in Tucson, the student housing building frenzy continues unabated. Meanwhile, in many neighborhoods near the University of Arizona, there are quite a few SFRs and apartment complexes with “for rent” signs.
This building frenzy will NOT end well.
This building frenzy will NOT end well.
We could use a building frenzy here in the City by the Bay. 49 square miles, water on 3 sides. There’s plenty of land (well, not plenty, but some) and while SF is the 2nd densest city in the country (after Manhattan), there are too many NIMBYs here complaining about tall buildings being an eyesore. These are the same people who complain about high rents, I suspect.
“Wealthy home sellers capitulate, high end prices drop”
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/story/2012-08-05/high-end-real-estate-sales-cnbc/56753732/1
I’ve already mentioned once or twice how a colleague had to drop the list price by almost $500K in order to sell.
I’m pretty sure this isn’t an isolated case!
Sale price was about 30% off initial list price…
Who can forget the heady days of the housing boom when property flippers would follow condo developers around like hungry wolves, waiting to pounce on new projects before one grain of earth had moved?
Property auctions for single family homes weren’t any different, as novice buyers were scooping up multiple properties only to flip them for a profit in a matter of weeks.
Those days are gone; the price appreciation is gone, and the funding is gone…but apparently the flippers are back. Some of them never left. Close to 100,000 properties were flipped in the first six months of this year, according to RealtyTrac, which defines flipping as a home bought and sold within six months. That is a 25 percent jump from a year ago. But flipping is not what it used to be.
“There is this kind of middle man investor who is doing the flipping,” says RealtyTrac’s Daren Blomquist, who ran a webinar last month titled, “Why Property Flipping is Flying High in 2012.” Blomquist says the difference for today’s flippers is that they must add value to the home before selling, because price appreciation alone won’t net the profit they seek. That means rehabbing, which can be pricey, depending on the condition of the property. Many of the distressed homes now that flippers seek have been either ransacked by former owners or left vacant and untended for years.
“You don’t see any of that highly speculative flipping where it’s solely reliant on the home prices going up for the flip to work,” says Blomquist, which is why many flippers are middle men. They flip to other investors in order to get the profit they need. “It’s probably easier to flip to another investor because this person is an experienced buyer and should have their ducks in a row in terms of being able to finance the property, if not pay up front in cash.”
Large-scale, big money investors, like hedge funds, have flooded the single family real estate market, looking for rental properties that will produce good yield. While some have their own teams attending foreclosure auctions and doing the rehabilitation and remodeling, many would rather buy turn-key products, even if the price is slightly higher. The “pure” property flip appears to be less popular, although in some stronger markets it is certainly still happening.
“I have seen a return of flipping, but only at the individual or small investor level. In some cases, these investors are targeting larger, institutional investors as potential buyers,” says Rick Sharga of Carrington Mortgage Holdings, a large fund investing in single family rentals. “I haven’t seen institutional investors doing much flipping (although they will occasionally sell off a few properties from a pool if the homes don’t fit their business model).”
Investors planning a REIT would not be flippers, Sharga notes, as what they need is a large pool of rental homes delivering the cash flow a REIT would require. Most of the larger investors are paying market price (sometimes a little less, sometimes more), which makes profitable flipping difficult.
Until the rental market chills and the housing market shows strong price gains, pure property flipping will not be nearly as lucrative as it once was. On the positive side, continued strength in the single family rental market and the ensuing large investors interest offers smaller investors willing to do the dirty work a large pool of cash-heavy buyers.
Back in the day.
There was nothing wrong with flipping.
People took their own money, purchased a house that need alot of work, did the work (usually themselves) and sold the house (sometimes for a profit).
They took ALL the risk. They improved something. If they were good, hard working and smart - they could make some money.
Somehow that turned into Casey Stein…
Who’s buying Glenn Beck’s $129 made in America jeans?
I can get 3 pair buddys jeans for that, also made in america. They do wear better and last longer than the imports, Honestly I don’t know if they’ll ever wear out, which makes me wonder about their business model long term. I find them comfortable. I never really thought I’d ever be talking about my pants on the HBB, but compared to the nightmare of political sloganeering on both sides, it actually feels kinda good… Maybe tomorrow we can get the ladies talking about shoes to drown out the D+R talking points, never thought I’d hear myself wishing for that.
I am not a customer of texas jeans but I’ve heard good things about them, and they’re a little cheaper yet.
I’m sure the hope was to make his jeans a novelty that they’re the only american made ones… not so. Probably Beck told/forced them to price at $130 to make a political point about needing more H1Bs or more illegal immigration or more un-free trade or more socialized govt bailouts of garment mfgrs or less OSHA or less EPA or whatever because “ALL jeans would cost $130 IF jeans were made in the usa”…. especially if you conveniently carefully ignore the $20-$40 jeans already being made in the USA.
Another way to word that is who wants to get in Glenn Beck’s jeans? Which is is almost as ugly picture as the thought of a Kagan and Barney Frank threesome which was raised above.
Kagan and Barney Frank threesome is a nice visual to enjoy while eating lunch
Take America Back!
Four More Years!
Restore Our Future!
Forward!
$4 million to build a home that is now only worth $700,000?
——————————————————–
Popcorn lung couple who won $20m in lawsuit forced to sell $3.9m house
The Daily Mail Online | October 15, 2012 | Helen Pow
A Missouri couple has filed for bankruptcy just eight years after winning a $20 million lawsuit against the makers of a butter popcorn flavoring that gave one of them lung disease.
But just eight years later, the two are being forced to sell the home they built for $3.9 million to pay off creditors, after their financial situation went spectacularly downhill.
According to the Joplin Globe, the Peoples listed the current value of their residence and 10.5 acres of land at just $700,000 and personal property assets of nearly $33,000.
But their liabilities are listed at more than $611,000, including a $482,876 mortgage with U.S. Bank. The couple’s case against the butter flavouring companies was the first of several brought by workers and their spouses.
Since winning the lawsuit, Cassandra Peoples has also been employed by Smith Midwest Realty as a realtor. Social networking sites also indicate she helps run PJ’s Country Bakery in Joplin, Missouri.
20 mil and bankrupt? I could live a comfortable middle class life for the REST of my life, on that.
35% to their attorney right off the top.
Still… :/
Don’t forget 50% or more to govt.
The part that is to replace lost wages is taxed as ordinary income because it replaces something that would be ordinary income. The part that is to “make you whole” for the injury is not taxed (if I remember correctly) because you don’t get measurable income from being uninjured (other than the replaced wages mentioned above).
Some of the $20 mil went to other workers at the plant.
Lawyers often get 40% if they have to go to trial.
It’s over for RMoney - Honey Boo Boo(?) prefers Obama.
In the bit’s bucket yesterday, Mugsy mentioned a coworker who is planning on buying a different, much cheaper now house and letting the bank foreclose or shortsell the bubble-priced house they currently owned.
I said “Kudos for doing the fiscally responsible thing!” and several posters jumped on it as if we should be shocked and angered by Mugy’s coworker for not ‘living up to his promises’ etc.
I find it crazy that people on THIS blog would hold such corporate loving attitudes. A mortgage is a business contract with two acceptable outcomes. 1) Pay the money back. 2) Forfeit the house. Mugsy’s coworker is choosing 2 since the house is costing him X dollars, and he could buy a comparable house for, say, X/2 dollars. He’s not breaking any contracts or laws, and is doing what’s best for his family.
As for the repercussions people talked about, like having to pay cash for cars, or dinged credit reports, the coworker is doing a smart thing in buying before forfeiting, so he can get a good rate before his credit is dinged. Landlords don’t like bad credit, either, and housing is often the largest expense, and having to move periodically when renting could be much worse than having to save up to buy a new car from the credit rating perspective.
I just shake my head in wonder why people would call it ‘immoral’ for the coworker to exactly fulfill the terms of the contract. If he were fighting foreclosure with no intent of ever paying to get a free ride, I would be happy to jump on the bandwagon saying he’s a jerk, but he’s being straightforward and fulfilling the terms of his contract. If business did the same thing, everybody would shrug and say “business decision” but when a PERSON dares make a business decision, suddenly they are immoral scum and the bank is suddenly a victim. Bah!
’such corporate loving attitudes’
It’s not the ‘banks’ money. It’s probably from someones 401k, or even more likely, the govt.
‘planning on buying a different, much cheaper now house and (then) letting the bank foreclose’
Wow, way to game the system. Why not walk away and rent? Noooo, they have to get a govt loan under the illusion that they pay their bills.
Anyway, this crap is why I don’t feel a lot of remorse when I throw FB’s cherished junk into the dump. Tell your friend someone like me will be around to kick them out of their ‘different, much cheaper now house’ when they walk away from that obligation too. Of course, we’ll all pay for it along with them.
It was not my friend, it was Mugsy’s coworker. And it is a completely rational business decision. Although I DO know several who did this in the east bay area. It’s funny how a lot of people here are laugh at the bank’s woes and exorcise them for making terrible loans, but when somebody who’s current on their loan comes to the realization it’s a terrible business decision and exercises the clause to allow them to exit the contract, suddenly the banks are ‘victims’ and grannies are going to suffer.
If you want to blame somebody for the loss of 401(k) funds or government bail outs, look at the bankers and the politicians, the liar loan originators (and greedy FBs who took out the liar loans), not the strategic defaulters. And of the 3 people that I personally know who strategically defaulted, all of them had SOME skin in the game, and took a loss from the down payment plus whatever they paid for the house over what it would have cost them to rent an equivalent house. They just did the math (that they should have done in 2007) and made the obvious decision.
‘not the strategic defaulters’
I blame them all. FB’s are the first to whine about being victims. This little switcheroo isn’t ethical, no matter how you slice it. It’s one thing to walk away, it’s another to arrange for a new loan before you do it.
BTW, nobody has been harder on lenders and politicians than me. I was calling them on their BS when the media was calling them hero’s for ‘getting people into houses’.
Strategic Defaulters are not FBs. They typically bought what they could afford, had skin in the game, and are completely current on their loan. There is no proviso in the mortgage that precludes them from buying other property, or for moving into that other property. FBs, on the other hand, bought houses they knew they couldn’t afford, usually with loans the banks knew they couldn’t afford, with both parties knowing that if housing didn’t continue to shoot into the stratosphere, they were doomed, doomed, doomed.
Strategic defaulters realized that they agreed to pay X for something that can now be had for X/2, and are exercising the exit clause on their contract. Businesses do this when lease prices on office space plummet and they’re locked into long term leases. Of course, in that case they can typically renegotiate the lease with the threat of exercising their lease breaking clauses. Mortgages have no ability to really do that, so they are doing that.
I find it interesting that the thing that tips you over to ‘unethical’ is the fact that they are buying another house. Walking away and letting the grannies/banks suck it up while they go to rent is fine, but not if they’re going to buy.
‘the thing that tips you over to ‘unethical’ is the fact that they are buying another house’
All the strategic defaulters are unethical. (So are most regular FB’s). Have you ever had someone renege on some money owed to you?
‘letting the grannies/banks suck it up while they go to rent is fine’
I didn’t say that. It’s also not fine to trash the house, leave pets to die. Put the neighbors through hell.
‘Strategic Defaulters are not FBs’.
Then why don’t they just pay up? Oh, it’s a business decision. We know that business decisions are always ethical…
“Have you ever had someone renege on some money owed to you?”
In other contexts, this is known as stealing. For instance, shoplifting consists of removing an item from a store after reneging on the money owed for the purchase.
They just did the math (that they should have done in 2007) and made the obvious decision.
When people start doing the math, look out banksters. Look out government. Look out economy.
“When people start doing the math,..”
Keep dreaming.
Math is be hard!
Just a note: Muggy is the teacher/administrator in Florida. Mugsy is an infrequent HBB poster in Sri Lanka, or was it Cyprus.
“He’s not breaking any contracts…”
Yes he is breaking the contract. The contract was a promise to pay. Foreclosure is the prescribed penalty for breaking the contract. He is breaking the contract and his pledge to pay. He likes the penalty better than his promise.
“doing a smart thing in buying before forfeiting, so he can get a good rate…”
He is a liar and a cheat and it is fraud. He knows that he is about to do something that will negatively affect his credit rating and he is going to pull one over on the lender. It is the same as failing to mention that he got fired from his job yesterday.
Maybe the shorter version is I wish every time I gambled with a call option and ended up out of the money, someone would lecture my counterparty about how its a moral obligation for them to pay me money even though I lost.
Unlike, say, paying taxes, noone has a gun pointing at anyone’s head when options contracts are bought and sold, so I’m not buying the whole boo hoo victim thing. I’m a genuine boo hoo victim when I pay my taxes.
I might gamble with options, but please show me respect anyway because I’m not a scum of the earth crook, like a banker, I only gamble with my own legally earned money not other peoples money that they trusted me with, I don’t hire govt thugs to take citizens tax money and give it to me when I lose big bets, and I actually live up to my options contracts unlike lots of (most?) real estate players on both sides. I think that’s why you’ll occasionally hear the Marxist types whining about speculators and blame us for random bad things, the reason they do that is we make the rest of the financial system look like the crooks they are.
This whole line of thinking from my co-worker has me concerned.
I have no idea how I will proceed for my own family. I simply hope I can renew my lease (again) when the time comes.
investment property. lots of people I work with are buying.. I don’t know ..?
Investing in your 401(k): The mistake people make is not that they invest in their 401(k) but that they invest only in their 401(k). Successful retirees diversify their income streams by investing in income producing vehicles such as investment properties to provide an alternative income stream in retirement. With interest rates so low right now, and a continued inventory of foreclosures and short sales, purchasing rental property may be an alternative investment for pre-retirees who don’t mind owning tangible assets and managing them.
Investment property owners get tax breaks along the way, too. Expenses such as depreciation and property management fees may be deductible, and if modified adjusted gross income is $150,000 or more, the losses are suspended but they carry forward to offset future rental income or capital gains when the property is sold. If the property has been held for more than one year, gains are taxed at favorable long-term capital gain tax rates.
Tip: Invest in, but also “think outside,” the 401(k). A Roth IRA provides tax-free income in retirement. Taxable accounts have advantages, too. With individual securities and mutual funds, you can “harvest” losses—matching your long-term losses against any long-term capital gains—to reduce tax liability. You can’t do that with a traditional pre-tax 401(k)—every dime you withdrawal is taxable at the higher ordinary income tax rates.
Isn’t the most important tax break for investment property capital loss carryover?
I am not a tax lawyer but it boils down to when you lose your shirt on investment property you can use that immense loss to offset taxable gains into the future.
Say you had a net worth of $2.1M and invest $1.1M in real estate which obviously drops to 100K and $1M in gold which increases the next year (or whatever) to $2M. Superficially you’d owe $1M worth of capital gains on the gold. Soon thats going to be roughly 20% (depending on bracket) or $200K. So without cap loss carry over, you’d end up with a net worth at the end of $100K worth of abandoned slum property, $2M of gold, and a $200K tax bill for a net worth of $1.9M (a loss, given you started at $2.1M)
With capital loss carryover, my limited understanding is you could sell the real estate (or more likely foreclose, short sale, just walk away while collecting rent checks, etc) at a loss, then apply that loss in a later year against the gold sale. Since the loss = the gain in this example the net tax would be zero. So the final net worth would be $100K of abandoned slum property, $2M of gold, for a net worth of $2.1M (broke even, given you started at $2.1M)
Of course if you just threw the whole $2.1M into gold, knowing the fed is going to print into hyperinflation, you’d have doubled $2.1M instead of $1M. You’d still owe 20% capgains on the $2.1M gain which would be $420K. For a net worth of $4.2M of gold, $420K tax bill, sum of $3.78M which isn’t bad for starting out at $2.1M
Obviously a gross simplification, because gold storage cost money, but real estate taxes and depreciation cost even more, commission rates and other fees vary for each investment, etc etc.
Your example = you didn’t make any money so you didn’t owe any taxes.
Obviously a better result than making ordinary income in one year and not making any income in the next, but since the two situations are actually different, it is expected that they would have different outcomes.
There seems to be one boom banking industry
The figures, released to coincide with World Food Day, reveal nationally 109,294 adults and children in the UK received emergency food aid between April and September. This compares with a total of 128,697 in the whole of 2011-12.
The 13,947 people in the West Midlands turning to food banks over the past six months compares to 2,254 in the East Midlands; 9,770 in the North West; 15,015 in London and 20,988 in the South West.
Trussell Trust Executive Chairman Chris Mould said: “Day in, day out, food banks already meet UK parents who are going without food to feed their children, or are forced to consider stealing to stop their children going to bed hungry.
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/14-000-turning-food-banks-survive/story-17090253-detail/story.html
PHOENIX (AP) — Cash donations and food, especially proteins, are sorely needed at metro Phoenix food banks as they struggle with a severe shortage of supplies and unchecked increase in demand.
Normally, the banks’ stock of food decreases in summer and early fall, but that decrease has been exacerbated by Congress’ postponement of a vote on the Farm Bill and a recent peanut-butter recall, which forced food banks to discard that crucial source of protein.
http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/10/16/news/state/doc507d0fb900125194668427.txt
TORONTO, Oct. 15, 2012 /CNW/ - On World Food Day, October 16, 2012, Food Banks Canada is asking Canadians to take action in support of people who are hungry
World Food Day occurs annually on October 16 to mark the date of the founding of the Conference of the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations. Organizations, agencies, businesses and individuals are marking World Food Day across the globe. The goal of the day is to strengthen awareness around the issue of food security and the struggle against hunger and poverty globally. Sadly, even Canada is not immune to this problem.
http://www.northumberlandview.ca/index.php?module=news&type=user&func=display&sid=17890
Taipei, Oct. 1 (CNA) Taiwan officially became part of the Global FoodBanking Network Monday, a move that is expected to improve the country’s food banks and help it gain access to more international resources to assist the disadvantaged and needy.
At the induction ceremony in Taipei, the Taiwan People’s Food Bank Association became the 24th member of the Chicago-based non-profit global organization, linking Taiwan with a network of food banks worldwide, said David Liu, chairman of the association.
http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=aSOC&ID=201210010019
Keep the UK posts coming please frankie.
Homebuilder index came out today (barometer on how builders are feeling).
Overall, the number increased from 40 to 41 (with 50 being the delineating factor between builders feeling good and bad), but most meaningful, IMHO is looking at the regional data.
NE, up from 31 to 34
Midwest, down from 45 to 41
South, up from 39 to 42
West, up from 44 to 49
It is worth noting that on the way down, this index was a leading indicator of the coming crash. By August 2006, the Western Index fell below 50, and was at 32 at year-end 2006, 18 at the end of 2007, 7 at the end of 2008.
So are you saying real estate is pretty much always going up from here, despite the highly-artificial means policymakers used to override fundamentals in order to fluff the homebuilding industry back from impotence?
I’m just sharing the data.
If you think that the homebuilder confidence is going up solely because of Fed policies, then you should be very cautious, since the Fed can dial it back at any moment.
If you think that homebuilder confidence is going up for other reasons, then you might conclude something else.
‘the number increased from 40 to 41 (with 50 being the delineating factor between builders feeling good and bad)
It’s been below 50 since 2005. If you think that home builders are confident you are mistaken.
The national number fell below 50 in mid-2006 (ie. a leading indicator to the crash–as I noted). As this number was on the decline starting in mid-2005 (when the number was in the 70s), even when still above 50, the direction of the indicator was a big warning flag…even though home prices hadn’t started the most significant part of their fall.
The variability by region is significant–which was my main point. The NE Region is still in the low 30s, with no clear direction (was 23 in August).
The Western Region was below 20 in all of 2009, 2010, and all but one month in 2011. In January 2012, the number was 21 in the West, the lowest of all 4 regions. Now the number is 49 in the Western Region, the highest of all four regions (7 higher than the next highest).
Homebuilder confidence in the West is rising, and rising faster than any other region in the country. That’s what the data shows.
“I’m just sharing the data.”
As if it isn’t bad enough you misrepresent known data. Here you’re misrepresenting speculation.
You know no bounds in the lie department.
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Food prices have been rising steadily around the world and this summer’s drought isn’t the only reason why, according to Frederick Kaufman, author of “Bet the Farm: How Food STOPPED Being Food.”
Kaufman tells The Daily Ticker that the price of global grains — the primary dietary staple for most people on the planet — have tripled since 2002 after decades of stability. “Something new has come to this market and we’re seeing absolute levels of volatility that we’ve never seen before,” Kaufman says.
That new development, he notes, is the exponential growth of commodity derivatives. U.S. derivatives trading in wheat alone has surged from $10 billion to $300 billion in less than a year, says Kaufman. “Speculators are completely overwhelming” the commodity futures market, says Kaufman, “subverting a market that has worked so well for over a hundred years.”
Traditionally the commodity futures market has allowed food producers and manufacturers to hedge price risk in a market that also includes speculators. There have been position limits on this type of speculation since 1936 but since 1999, those limits have been lifted for some big banks as Wall Street looked for more ways to make money. That paved the way for the increased speculation in the market today.
Kaufman says more speculation exacerbates food prices. Higher food prices have led to a global food crisis and civil unrest in the Mideast and North Africa.
Related: Food is the New Oil and Land the New Gold: Lester Brown
According to the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organization, which is holding a week-long meeting in Rome on world food security, 870 million people around the world—or one in eight—are starving or undernourished.
“While the chance of food prices returning to levels seen in 2008 and 2011 in the coming months may be slim, they remain at historically high levels, and the underlying factors driving them are here to stay,” the organization says in a press release.
The UN FAO cites population growth and a growing middle class in the developing world as factors boosting demand for grain-intensive protein and rising energy costs. “High food prices, therefore, are here to stay,” it says.
Kaufman says the U.S. should be concerned about this global situation. Higher food prices can cause civil unrest and become a national security concern for this country, which itself has 17 million households that are at risk of going hungry.
Kaufman tells The Daily Ticker that the price of global grains — the primary dietary staple for most people on the planet — have tripled since 2002 after decades of stability. “Something new has come to this market and we’re seeing absolute levels of volatility that we’ve never seen before,” Kaufman says.
This is the kind of crap that foments revolutions.
It already has, how do you think the Arab spring started; I’ll give you a clue it wasn’t caused by a hunger for democracy.
Higher food prices can cause civil unrest and become a national security concern for this country,
Food prices are rising in Brazil, especially good food. Beer’s up about 20% in a year.
Somebody help me out here: If speculators are driving up the grain prices then what is to prevent the world’s farmers from planting every square inch of land they have access to and selling their yield to the speculators and raking in bundles of money?
It seems to me the higher the grain price the greater the incentive for farmers to produce grain. Taken to the extreme a point should eventually be reached whereby the world would run out of places to store the stuff.
then what is to prevent the world’s farmers from planting every square inch of land they have access to? ”
water
Then the issue isn’t speculators driving up the prices, the issue is there is not enough water.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-15/corn-belt-shifts-north-with-climate-as-kansas-crop-dies.html
Drought in the midwest last couple of years is probably more to blame for it than anything
article about crops headed north due to climate change
That mean ole David Dayen is raining all over the housing recovery parade. Again. Evidence below:
Puncturing the Housing Optimism Bubble
Fun-filled quote:
People aren’t selling their homes to “step up” into new ones because they cannot come up with the down payment. Banks are keeping other homes in their inventory off the market to structure supply. So prices, which are artificially derived at this point, does not necessarily account for sales. In fact, as we move out of summer, we are likely to see a sales drop. Sales in California fell 16% month-over-month in September, and it was even a 2.7% drop year-over-year.
If you look at the market as a whole without being seduced by the rhetoric, you’ll see this a bit more clearly.
Great find AZ…
Isn’t it interest the truth about housing is obscured… even here on this blog.
“it was even a 2.7% drop year-over-year.”
I posted on this yesterday, here is a quote from the Housingwire article that he links as his source:
“It is normal for there to be a drop in home sales between August and September, however the dip last month was more significant. This is primarily due to the month starting and ending with a weekend and with fewer business days than normal.”
There were 22 business days in September last year, 20 this year.
Given that, tell me, is a 2.7% drop statistically significant? Doesn’t he have anything better to support his view?
You’re forever a pimp.
Under water homeowners trying to find a foreclosure defence lawyer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HxVeI9IPgs - 170k -
Posted: 3:23 p.m. Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2012
Battery maker A123 files for bankruptcy protection
By TOM KRISHER
The Associated Press
DETROIT —
After years of struggling with weak sales and mounting losses, electric-car battery maker A123 Systems filed for bankruptcy protection and reached a deal to sell its automotive assets Tuesday.
Auto parts maker Johnson Controls will pay $125 million for A123’s auto business, which includes two Michigan factories and the lithium-ion battery technology used in cars like the Fisker Karma and upcoming Chevrolet Spark.
A123’s demise as an independent business reflects the problems of the electric-car industry. Americans have been slow to buy the vehicles because they’re expensive, and many models have limited range and can run out of power on longer trips. Lackluster sales of EVs and batteries left A123 Systems Inc. with huge losses and a plunging market value.
The company’s stock price, which traded for more than $20 on the day of its initial public offering in 2009, fell to 6 cents in late-day trading Tuesday.
The bankruptcy filing also spawned more Republican criticism of the Obama administration, which used stimulus money to support alternative energy businesses including A123 Inc., electric-car companies, and solar-panel maker Solyndra LLC.
The company warned that it might not be able to stay in business unless it got more financing, and just two months ago, it announced a $450 million lifeline from Chinese auto parts maker Wanxiang Group Corp. But A123 said Tuesday that the deal has been scrapped.
Republicans argue that grants and loans to alternative energy companies like A123 were a waste of stimulus money. They point out that Solyndra, a politically connected and now-bankrupt company, left taxpayers on the hook for $528 million after it failed to repay a government loan.
Democrats counter by saying the losses were expected when Congress created the high-risk program, which is intended to boost cutting-edge projects that would have trouble getting private financing. They say the “vast majority” of companies that received loans are still expected to pay them back in full, with interest.
Andrea Saul, spokeswoman for Republican Mitt Romney’s campaign, said in an e-mail that the bankruptcy is “yet another failure for the President’s disastrous strategy of gambling away billions of taxpayer dollars on a strategy of government-led growth that simply does not work.”
Posted already.
What’s your point?
Sorry I didn`t see it, do I need a point? If I do need a point then it`s that I like Ben`s cat.
His point is that
1. The US should cede the entire sector to China.
2. That the US should continue to fund middle east countries with our petrodollars.
3. That the US should spend countless dollars defending oil interests.
That`s one talented cat.
The bastards are grinding me down.
“The bastards are grinding me down.”
Then just do the fiscally responsible thing. Oh that`s right you pay rent. Funny how doing the fiscally responsible thing doesn`t work out as well for people who pay rent as it does for people who don`t pay the mortgage on the houses they live in for free that are under water isn`t it.
What did you do this month?
Well I paid my rent and all of my bills.
That was the fiscally responsible thing to do.
And what did you do this month?
Well I didn`t pay my mortgage just like I haven`t for the last three years because my house is only worth half of what I paid for it.
Well that was the fiscally responsible thing to do.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
Mugs, hon,
Stop it. Life goes on, your kids love you, trees are green and the earth smells amazing after a rain.
The strictures of mankind are nothing so much as silly diversions for those lacking in imagination. Laff at them. Go into the bathroom and take a long hot shower with your wife. Better yet, know that three days from now, circumstances will be changed and the orange juice will still be sweet.
Hugs,
a
I’m a bit nostalgic for the old days when this blog was mostly about the housing bubble and not politics.
’m a bit nostalgic for the old days when this blog was mostly about the housing bubble and not politics.
This election is wearing me down, too. Wake me when it’s over.
Don’t get me started. At least in CA you probably aren’t getting the ads that we are. VA is a swing state. And, it is Washington. I can’t even listen to Morning Edition anymore. OK, some of that is because it is pledge week, but a lot is the reporting on the election.
In a past life, I was one of those evil pledge drive people.
Yes, it’s true. I was one of those pitchers. That’s what it’s called in the radio biz. You pitch for donations. And you pitch and pitch and pitch.
If, for some reason, the phones just aren’t ringin’ when you’re pitchin, the general manager comes into the studio bitchin’, and you’re tossed off the air. That’s what happened to me. It’s the reason why I’m no longer on the radio.
Were there any fake rings (shill rings)?
Did anyone make the phones ring just to make it look as there was a lot of action?
Televised auctions have been known to do this. Not only do they fake the calls they sometimes fake the bids.
Were there any fake rings (shill rings)?
Did anyone make the phones ring just to make it look as there was a lot of action?
Televised auctions have been known to do this. Not only do they fake the calls they sometimes fake the bids.
Nope, none of the above. And it had been a quiet afternoon of fundraising before I appeared on the scene.
Slim, My condolences. Being tossed out so ignominiously. You are right to be pissed off. It sucks to be the bagman. It had nothing to do with you.
By any chance, did the GM say anything like “It’s not you, it’s me?” (snark).
OK, you got a lot out of it - dj school and all. It really will help you in your biz, I think. Cold calling will come a lot easier, although admittedly it’s not as glam as being on the air. You got some name recognition - this could have been at the root of it? Somebody evilly whispering that you were using the station to further your own ends? Oh well. It’s another chapter - use it to your advantage. Use it in your advertising - “formerly dj at XXXX!!!”. There’s a nice artsy synergy there, for certain audiences. Hey, if you’ve already got the name, you might as well play the game.
Sorry to hear it happened. But, to cite one of the brazen pr*cks with whom I have had professional acquaintance: if you have worked on something, and it goes TU, you reframe it into a victory, take full credit, and loudly say “NEXT”! as you move on and never look back.
Best to you! Your community here loves ya.
We get nothing in CA but stories of fundraisers…Republicans here who want to make a difference, but realize their vote doesn’t really matter, open their checkbooks.
in CA we vote on propositions to raise taxes , restrict union dues or how they are collected, repeal 3 strikes or the last strike if its minor, stiffen penalties for sex trade slavery or something like that, and a bunch more stuff etc.
“I’m a bit nostalgic for the old days when this blog was mostly about the housing bubble and not politics.”
It’s contrived now. The paid housing whores intentionally throw the topic.
It’s contrived now. The paid housing whores intentionally throw the topic.
“throwing the topic” is different than stifling the debate with insults. No?
Deliberate misinformation and untruths won’t be part of the debate as long as I’m allowed to post here.
“I’m a bit nostalgic for the old days when this blog was mostly about the housing bubble and not politics.”
The elections will pass soon.
Here you go folks. If you didn’t believe that the entire housing issue isn’t muddied and obfuscated by realtard scum here on this blog and in the media…. here is more evidence of propagandized lies.
Go here….
http://www.timesunion.com/business/press-releases/article/The-Foreclosure-Inventory-Flood-That-May-Never-3897959.php
Disregard the headline as you know it’s a flat out lie. Look just under heading… see the link? Here it is….. now visit here and read it.
http://www.prweb.com/
That’s right. You can write your own article and get it printed and put into syndicate with a just a few bucks….
Now check out there client list.
http://service.prweb.com/who-uses-it/industry/real-estate/
The extent of the distortions, propaganda and misrepresentation of fundamentals goes deep folks. You even see it right here on this blog.
Posted: 5:21 p.m. Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2012
County mortgages surge amidst low rates and shrinking home supply
Share
By Kimberly Miller
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Palm Beach County recorded a 65 percent increase in mortgages last month compared to the same time in 2011, a likely result of rock bottom interest rates and a scramble for remaining steals.
There were 4,017 mortgages recorded in September, according to a county clerk of courts report released Tuesday, which also noted a slowdown in new foreclosure filings last month.
Skip McDonough, of Family Mortgage in Jupiter, said mortgage volume has been on the rise the last four months with dwindling housing inventory and interest rates still well below 4 percent.
Last week, Freddie Mac reported the average 30-year fixed mortgage interest rate rose from 3.36 percent to 3.39 percent. A year earlier, the 30-year fixed rate was 4.12 percent.
“We’ve had the lowest rates in the history of residential lending so people who even refinanced two years ago could justify refinancing again,” he said. “Bargains are also disappearing like crazy and people are motivated to make a move sooner.”
Palm Beach County’s overall inventory of single-family homes was down to less than a five-month supply in August. That’s 57 percent below where it was in August 2011, according to the Realtors Association of the Palm Beaches.
McDonough said banks have not loosened standards for lending money, meaning top credit scores, documented income and money down are still a necessity.
“Those guidelines have not softened at all,” he said.
While the clerk’s report found a 24 percent decrease in September foreclosures from August and a 5 percent drop from last year, total filings for 2012 are still expected to exceed 2011, said Clerk Sharon Bock.
There were 11,639 new foreclosure cases filed through September of this year compared to a total of 12,154 in all of 2011.
Rope-a-Dope indeed.
Poor Mitt. This is truly painful….
What’s with the ties? Mitt is wearing a Barack tie, and Barack is wearing a Mitt tie.
I’m confused now!
The flop sweat. Oh, the flop sweat….
Ouch.
Wow. Romney’s really freaking out in the debate. Candy just told him to sit down……Is “His Majesty” Romney not used to people confronting him?
Why in the sam-effing-hill did Romney bring up the 47% thing at the very, very end? What the…?
What the… ?
I guess he got rattled… ?
Just answer the question without referencing the 47% thing. Or did he know that Obama would hit him with that? How bizarre. He just needed to talk about how touchy-feely he is and make puppy dog eyes. Wow. Incomprehensible.
How bizarre.
IMO Romney’s performances tonight, and in the past, are a bit bizarre. Obama is a total political tool, but to me, Obama is not bizarre. I understand Obama’s actions in light of BS politics. But there is something about Romney (not including my dislike of his politics) that unnerves me.
Heck, I liked W. way better. I almost voted for him the first time. But Romney is not cool under pressure, and he is totally unraveled when someone confronts his lies.
This, IMO, is not the mark of the leader of the free world.
“47%”
Maybe it was one of those compulsive acts people some times commit, only to later deeply regret them, like in the scene from A Christmas Story when the kid’s tongue gets stuck to the pole. “I triple-dog dare ya!“
Coolness and Fact vs Frantic and Jack.
Look to the eyebags. Last week Obama looked like death warmed over. This debate had Gov. Romney in need of a B-12 series. Kudos to Candy Crowley for keeping it on point.
“For the record, that 15 million is LESS THAN 5% of the population.”
And your point is?
So is it safe to say the presidential election outcome hinges on the last debate? Or did Obama already deliver the knockout punch?
Sharper, more aggressive Obama shows up to second presidential debate (+video)
In a smaller town-hall style debate at Hofstra University in New York, the presidential candidates took the stage sometimes circling each other like prize fighters.
By John Whitesides and Samuel P. Jacobs, Reuters / October 16, 2012
…
I know this doesn’t mean what it sounds like out of context, but it is certainly an interesting wording for a comment!
WATCH: Mitt Romney Talks About “Binders Full Of Women”
Given the Mormon “Joy Books”, (photo albums of nubile underaged girls listed by their fathers as available for “binding”), MItt’s “Binders Full of Women” comment takes on a whole new — and hugely creepy — connotation.
Nawwwh,
whats really creepy is the way they both tried to out “suck up” each other for the female vote.
Whatever happened to standing on your record?
This time the post-debate bounce went to Obama:
2012 US Presidential Election Vote Share Market
2012 US Presidential Election Winner Takes All Market
My son showed me this site. I thought it was clever.
http://www.romneytaxplan.com/
The Republican spin doctors are going to deluge the HBB with rationalizations bright and early tomorrow about what they wish would have happened in the second debate, but didn’t?
And you can bet the Republican talk show hosts will be licking their wounds, while openly accusing Obama of bullying Romney.
Oct. 17, 2012, 1:02 a.m. EDT
Obama debate win gets campaign back on track
Commentary: Romney stumbles as president attacks, charms, inspires
By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Barack Obama won the debate and got his campaign back on track.
The presidential election is far from over, but the president accomplished his major goals during Tuesday’s town-hall-style debate with Republican candidate Mitt Romney.
After his dominating performance Tuesday, no one is talking about the sleepwalking president anymore. If anything, they’re calling him a bully for the way he slapped Romney around.
…
I guess nobody gave this guy the memo about how the global central banking cartel is printing the global economy’s problems away?
Markets
Michael Belkin Predicts 40% Stock Market Drop
Hedge Fund Consultant Michael Belkin spoke at The Big Picture conference, predicting a 40% stock market drop in the coming 12-15 months. Belkin joins Sam Mamudi to discuss his case for a market drop.
10/15/2012 1:43:26 PM